Ask Olive Tree Genealogy a Question

Finding Parents' Names When all You have is Birth and Death Year

2012-01-25T09:00:00.000-05:00

Deb asked

I was wondering if you had any suggestions on how to find info on a person who is buried in the Colborne Township Cemetery Ontario ? This cemetery is online with photos of the headstones. However the stone for the person that I am researching only has the year of birth and the year of death. I am trying to find the names of his parents but with out an exact date of date it is difficult to find an obit etc. His name is Clayton Steels . By the stone he we born in 1920 and died in 2005. I was hoping that a local Genealogy Society had a clipping file by year and name or something. Any ideas.

Olive Tree Response: Deb - there are several ways you could try to find Clayton's parents' names

1. Send for his birth registration (assuming he was born in Ontario). You can request a search by contacting the Office of the Registrar General.

2. Hunt for an obituary or ask on a mailing list if anyone has access to the 2005 newspapers for the area where he lived and died

3. Write to the cemetery where Clayton is buried and request any information they have.

4. Check out the other STEELS family members who are buried in that same cemetery. There's a very good chance they are all related. In fact I see that James Steels (1881-1947) would be a good age to have a son born 1920. James' wife was Anna (1888-1969), her name is on his stone. Just something to take a look at.

5. If all the above ideas fail, take heart because in six years the 1920 Ontario births will be available to the public.

Good luck, I hope your quest is successful.

Confusion About Canadian Loyalists Answered

2011-12-03T10:00:00.000-05:00

Jim asked an interesting question about an Irish ancestor being a Loyalist

I have Canadian roots in 1850-1869 area of Kingston Ontario Canada, and I am
wondering if they were survivors on a coffin ship, (mine were on the ill
fated Hannah that struck a ice reef and sank) and they have lived in the
Brewers Mills area of Rideau Canal. MY question is "did they have to become
loyalists" when they got off the ship? Seeing they were catholic, survived
the "Potatoe Famine" and more than likely hated England? Being a loyalist
did they have a better time of it in Canada than the regular people that
lived there?

OLIVE TREE GENEALOGY ANSWER: Jim - to be a Loyalist a person had to meet certain criteria including:

* Reside in the American Colonies before the American Revolution
* Joined the British Forces before 1783
* Suffered loss of property, goods or life

As you can see, your man did not fit any of these. Besides, no individual "had" to become a Loyalist. A loyalist was someone living in the American Colonies who remained loyal to the King of England and did not participate in the Rebellion on the American side.

If what you are really asking is "Did he have to become a citizen of Canada" the answer is - Canada was not "Canada" at that time. It was still a British colony until 1867.

The Canadian Citizenship Act began on 1 January 1947. From 1763 to that date, people born in the provinces and colonies of British North America were all British subjects. Taking the oath of allegiance meant becoming a British subject. Thus immigrants from Great Britain and the Commonwealth (England, Ireland, Wales or Scotland) did not have to be naturalized.

It is most likely that, being Catholic and Irish, your ancestors had a rough time of it. There was a great deal of discrimination against the Irish at that time, and being Irish Catholic was in a sense a double whammy.

But you could find some details by consulting the census to see what kind of home they had - a shanty, a log cabin, a stone house, including how many storeys. You could also consult land records to see if they owned land. There are ways to flesh out the bare bones of names and dates.

How to Find an Ancestor Who Disappears in Canada after 1861

2011-10-28T08:32:00.000-04:00

Alexa Genealogy has a challenging question about an ancestor's cousin who disappeared after leaving England for Canada circa 1867. I edited her question to provide readers with the basic facts and assumptions of the individuals she asked about.

Elizabeth Young was my Great Grandma's lst Cousin. She was documented as born in Bretby, Derbyshire abt June, 1845, and definitely christened there on 15 JUL 1845 - with parents PHOEBE AND ABRAM YOUNG; probably 6 weeks old -because she was 5 in the next census ( n 1851 they guessed born in 1846 - but we know she was born in 1845).

She was living there, age 5, in the English 1851 census with her parents and family, living on Hoofy Farm, Hartshorne.

She was boarding at school, as a Trainee Teacher age 15, in the 1861 English census, in Stapenhill, Derbyshire;

Elizabeth Young left for Canada to marry her sweetheart, JOHN BOND! (the year?) (1870 +-5).He was also from Derbyshire, England

John Bond and Elizabeth Young were married, for sure, on the quayside, beside the emigrant ship. (Date?) I suspect about 1867. Or a bit later.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT SHIP. I DONT KNOW WHAT DATE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT SHORE. It could have been Nova Scotia, or it could have been Quebec

She married, I'm sure whe would have had children. Why can't I find her on the Passenger Lists? Why can't I find a Marriage Certificate? Why can't I even find them in a census after?

In my searches, I found one John Bond, age 29, born in England, C of E, a widower, with 2 tiny girls, living in central Montreal, Quebec, in the 1871 census. A merchant. This could be him.

Hello Alexa - That is indeed a challenging research question!

First: You will want to consult the Bibliotheque et Archives Nationales du Quebec (National Archives of Quebec), specifically the Montreal Centre. There the indexes of births, marriages and deaths of non-Catholics in the Québec City area (1790-1875) and in the Montréal area (1760-1899), available on microfiche and microfilm, and the index of births, marriages and deaths of Catholics in the city of Montréal (1642-1899), available on microfilm.

If you are correct that your Elizabeth married in the arrival port then the marriage might be found here. Of course if the ship landed in Nova Scotia you will have to consult records for that province. You're in luck because Marriage Registrations for Nova Scotia 1864-1935 are indexed online at NovaScotiaGenealogy

Second: Look for a death for your Elizabeth in Quebec and Ontario. The problem is that Ontario did not require vital registrations until 1869 so if she died before that year you will have a challenge to find her. Before 1869 you must look for church records so that means knowing where she lived and what religion she was.

Third: Ships passenger lists to Canada did not have to be kept before 1865. So if your Elizabeth sailed before that date it is very possible that there is no surviving passenger list for her. There are passenger lists online from 1865 on both Ancestry.com and at Library & Archives Canada However The early ships lists are very difficult to read and it may be that your Elizabeth's name is badly mangled and misindexed. It may be that it is entirely unreadable so you may have to scroll page by page reading the passenger lists for yourself. You might be able to spot her name by recognizing some other fact such as her age or place of origin.

For alternate ships passenger lists in these early years see Filling in the Gaps There are shipping company records, emigration officer records, Poor Law Union correspondence and many other records that provide information on an immigrant arriving in Canada in those years.

Fourth: Many early census records for Canada are missing or incomplete. Since you seem to have no information about John Bond (his date of birth etc) *and* you are not sure if Elizabeth died before 1871, it will be difficult for you to determine which, if any, are the correct man.

The only advice I can give you here is to use the search engines and use wildcards. Be creative in your searches. For example perhaps the family is listed under BUND, BAND, BONDD, BONDE or any other variant spelling and misspelling of the surname. Perhaps John is listed only under his initial J. or perhaps he used his middle name or a nickname. Try other possibilities!

Fifth: You mention a possibility for John in the 1871 Quebec census. My advice is to follow this family - look for the marriages for the two daughters and see who they say their mother is. Look for a death in Quebec of John. You have some good clues and avenues of research left to explore.

Using Wildcards to Break Down a Brick Wall

2011-10-24T09:37:00.002-04:00

Roxanne asked about her great grandfather's arrival in Canada and naturalization date:

I am looking for informationon my great grandfather. He came over to Canada about* 1913 on a ship. I'm not sure from which port but he came from Sweden to Ontario. He started out in Kenora, Ont. On the ship were two or three of his children and his wife:
Albin Franz Danielson (my great-grandfather)and Charlotte (Wohlin), along with Sonia, Siren and Donald their children. (All the children are under 5). I can not seem to locate a passenger's list anywhere to find out where in Sweden they came from. Or when they became citizens of Canada. I do know that Charlotte his wife died in Kenora, Ontario in 1917 and my great-grandfather died in Eagle River, Ontario 1970. I've looked at many different passenger lists but still could not find them.

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: Hi Roxanne. I don't usually do lookups or research on this blog. Instead I try to direct genealogists towards locations to find the records they want or to offer ideas on where/how they might search next.

However your question intrigued me! I wondered why you had not found Albin on a ships passenger lists, since passenger lists to Canada after 1865 are online on Ancestry.com and at Library & Archives Canada. So I headed to Ancestry.com to have a look.

They have the complete set of ships passenger lists to Canada from 1865. I figured it might be the spelling of the names and that perhaps you weren't aware you could use wildcards. That brings me to another point I wanted to make - when you are struggling with a brick wall ancestor, find out WHAT records are available for your needs and WHERE they are kept!

Tip #1: Use Wildcards!

So I started with wildcards and did a search for DANIELS*N. That allows for e, o, i or any number of other substitutions for the *

With this method I found someone I thought was your Albin travelling to Kenora Ontario in May 1911 on board the Lake Manitoba. I wasn't 100% sure it was the right man but then I found Albin's wife and children arriving later with the notation that Charlotte was headed to her husband in Kenora. Bingo. Albin came first and Charlotte and the children followed in August 1911 on board Empress of Ireland. You can find the passenger lists online and enjoy reading all the details.

Charlotte, 28, was with two children (not 3) named Sonya age 3 and Albin aged 1 1/2. Could Albin Jr be Sorin? Albin was with a man named Axel Adolph Danielson but I can't read his age with certainty. I'm wondering if he was related - a brother perhaps? There is a notation beside Albin's name which you will want to follow up "Continental Bonus Allowed"

It didn't take long and that is why it's important to use wildcards in searches to allow for mis-spellings, mangled readings of surnames and other errors.

Tip #2: Be prepared for errors and inconsistencies when comparing records to family lore/memories

Also you're going to have to be very creative with the wildcard searches because I found the marriage of your Albin to Olga Anderson in 1918 in Kenora. But he is recorded as "DONALDSON". He's a farmer, widower, living in Eagle River born in Sweden and with parents "D. Danielson" and "Brita Crautch" This also was found on Ancestry.

Interestingly a birth registration for his son Carl Donald in Kenora in 1912 shows Albin as "Frans Albin Danielson" but a death registration for another son (unnamed) who was born and died in Dec 1916 records him as "Albin Donaldson" We know it is your ancestor from his wife's name in that record - "Charlotte Wallis" So either he called himself Donaldson/Danielson interchangeably or the clerks doing the recording misunderstood what he was saying.

Tip #3: Finding Naturalization Records

Remember you want to find out WHAT records are available and WHERE they are kept. So for naturalization records I went to NaturalizationRecords.com, clicked on Canada and then used the link there to go to the LAC (Library &Archives Canada) searchable index for Naturalization records 1915-1936.

Another bingo! Your great grandfather is found there as Frans Albin Danielson. His two minor children Sonya and Soren are also naturalizing with him so you will want to send for the full record. You can do so by reading how to do this on the LAC website.

And that's all there was to it. If I were you I would now search Swedish records for Frans Albin/Albin Frans and his parents, as well as the Axel Adolph Danielson he was travelling with in 1911. I'd also search records after 1911 for Axel to see if there's a family connection to your Albin.

Canadian Citizenship Records 1950s

2011-08-20T08:09:00.000-04:00

Yolanda asked about lists of Canadian citizens in 1959:

I am looking for some help as I do not know where to start. I am looking for a list of people who became Canadian citizens in 1959.

Please advise as to where I might find these records...

Hello Yolanda - You won't find such a list. Canada has strict privacy laws. The most recent Canadian public census is 1911. Compare that to the United States whose most recent public census is 1930 (with 1940 being made public in a year)

If you are looking for one specific individual, you may be able to access that information (depending on your relationship to the person and a few other factors) See http://naturalizationrecords.com website for the answers. Choose Canada Naturalization Records. Good luck.

Finding an Ancestor in 1851 Agricultural Census Canada

2011-07-27T07:53:00.001-04:00

Susan had a question about the 1851 Agricultural Census for Ontario Canada

I recieved an answer from you on May 24, 2011 about John Edmondson. Thank you! I have another question. I can't seem to get to the 1851 agricultural census. Every time I try all I get is the regular 1851 census.

Hi Susan -

Go to Ancestry.com

Type in your ancestor's name as John edm*ds*n (using the wildcards allows for mispellings)

Keyword: Perth

Collection Priority: Only Canadian Records

Choose CENSUS when the results are shown.

See the two hits for 1851 census? The first is the personal census, the second is the Agricultural census

Hiding in Plain Sight

2011-07-05T12:26:00.001-04:00

Nicole wrote to me last year with a query that began with

According to the family and the SSDI my great grandfather Stanley Albert Gorleski was born 4/19/1900 in Pennsylvania USA (no county of birth found yet) - he lived in Westmoreland County, PA for the majority of his adult life; well that's all the family ever knew...

Nicole went on to say she could find nothing on Stanley in any census records except for a possibility in 1920 but in the wrong part of Pennsylvania and this Stanley was 10 instead of the expected 20 years old. We exchanged another email where I asked for more details. Nicole provided a bit more including this

Ella & Stanley spent their married life in New Kensington, Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania

I set Nicole's email aside, with good intentions to work on it. But I forgot and it fell to the bottom of my pile of requests. Well, one year later Nicole wrote - a very lovely, polite and gentle email in which she asked if I perhaps had forgotten about her or more likely couldn't answer her question and that was why she never saw it on my Ask Olive Tree blog.

Yes, I said one year. Nicole waited an entire year then wrote to me again. But she didn't demand and she didn't chastise me. I wish everyone would take a lesson from Nicole! I get a lot of angry, demanding emails and all that accomplishes is my blood pressure rises and I delete the question. As my grandmother used to say "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" and Nicole is a great example of that adage.

I was so impressed with her letter that I decided to forgo my usual advice and suggestions for pointing researchers in what is hopefully the right direction. Instead I set about researching Nicole's Stanley Gorleski. Many hours later and with one of the most challenging research puzzles I've ever tackled, I'm pleased to say I have found the family. Because it was such a challenge (poor Nicole, no wonder nothing was found!) I am writing up how I found them, where I found them and the difficulties I had to overcome. I hope this will help other genealogists.

Polish & Other Non-North American Names

One thing I've learned is that Polish names are often very badly mangled both in transcribing and in recording. Often the immigrant had a thick accent or spoke very little English, so the census taker or clerk could only record what he heard. So the original record can be different from the name as the researcher knows it. That meant that Gorleski could be very different in the records - such as Gorlesky, Gorlewski, or any other variant. And that's not taking into account transcriber error - the person indexing the records may have had trouble reading the handwriting.

Using Wildcards

So I like to begin with wildcard searches. Since I'm going to focus on census records on Ancestry.com, I'm going to start my search using Stan* Go*l*sk* as the first and last name (that will find variations in the surname as well as first name Stanley such as Stanly or Stanislau or Stanislaw... I can't assume that his name as Nicole knew it was his baptismal name)

Even though Nicole stated Stanley was born in Pennsylvania I'm not restricting my search with a birth location, just a date of birth (1900) plus/minus 2 years. I'm using Pennsylvania in the keyword field as I only want results that include the word Pennsylvania, either as place of residence or birth.

Possible Family in 1920 Census - a Working Theory Begins

My best result was a hit in 1920 census in New Kensington, Westmoreland Pennsylvania for a Stanley Gorlewski aged 19, born Pennsylvania. I had a gut feeling this was Nicole's ancestor (Do you get those feelings? I do and I run with them as a working theory while I work to prove or disprove it) so I noted the parents and siblings and details to try to find the family in 1910 and earlier.

Briefly the father was Joseph Gorlewski, age 50 born Poland/Russia (that is how it was recorded), immigration year 1885, not naturalized (as proven by notation AL in the column). Mother Anna age 50 same location of birth, immigration year not known. That was interesting as it may indicate they did not immigrate together. Just something to jot down and keep in mind as I search.

Children were all born in Pennsylvania, another interesting fact as it may mean that Joseph and Anna married in USA. Just another thought to jot down. They were John, 29; Gust 26 (I jotted a note that this could be short for Gustave or Gustaf); Mary 21; Stanley 19, Joseph 19; Esther 17 and Martha 14. Since nothing jumped out in 1900 or 1910 for the search I'd done for Stan* Go*l*sk* I knew I had to either conduct a less restrictive search or use more wildcards in the surname or search for the parents or another child.

I've got way more clues now but searching under the parents' names turned up nothing that seemed solid. Searching for Stanley was not successful either. At least it wasn't apparent to me that any of the hits I got were for him.xx

Success in 1900 Census when search parameters widened

Bingo! One of the hits for 1900 was for a Golefskey family living in Allegheny Pennsylvania. Parents were Joseph, 35 born Poland and Antonia 30 born Germany as well as children John, 8; Gustav age 5; Mary 1 and little Stanley 1 month. Dad stated his immigration year was 1888, mom said hers was 1890 and they were married in 1891. This looked really promising as the children matched the 1920 family where expected. And little Stanley's birth was listed as April 1900 which also fit with Nicole's known date of birth for her ancestor.

What added more weight to this being the correct family was that I had earlier found that John, the older brother, was born in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania Feb. 17, 1892. And Pittsburgh is in Allegheny. (The miscellaneous records I found for John were his WW1 Draft Registration, his WW2 records, and his burial in St. Mary's Cemetery, Lower Burrell, Westmoreland)

1910 Census Badly Messed Up

But I still could not find the family in 1910. That's when I decided to search for Gust, the son who was 5 in 1900 and 26 in the 1920 census. I opted to use this in the name fields: Gus* G*l*sk* I wanted to widen my search to possible surname mangling. The only hit that seemed even remotely possible was for a Gustave Godleski age 16 born Pennsylvania, living in Pittsburgh, but the index said his father was John not Joseph. On a hunch I checked the actual image.

Wow, what an indexing mess! John who was listed as the father in the index was actually John, age 18, the oldest brother of siblings Gustave 16; Mary 12; Stanley 10; Joseph 8; Anastasia 6 and Martha 4. They were at the top of the census page so that meant their parents were on the previous page. Sure enough parents were listed as Joseph Godleski 42 born Russia and wife Antonia 40 born Germany. They said they'd been married 19 years so that fit nicely with what I'd found on the other census records.

Census Year 1930 Turns Up More Clues

I decided to hunt for the family in 1930 and using John this time I found the family where expected - New Kensington. This time they consisted of Antoinette Gorlewski age 58, a widow, born Germany, immigrated in 1890, not naturalized, with sons John 38 and Joseph 28.

Summary

Don't get me wrong. This was a very frustrating and time-consuming search. I didn't just quickly think of how and where to search, then bingo there the family was. I had many many search results that didn't help at all. I had to keep trying various methods of searching - no last name, no date of birth, no location, and so on. I've tried to summarize the successes in this blog post but genealogists need to realize there were many many failures along the way!

Thankfully I'm pretty stubborn because last night I gave up. I'd only found Stanley in 1920 and was frustrated by my inability to find anyone but his brother John in any other records (including census). But after a good night's sleep I woke up this morning with an "aha!" moment in my head. I figured there were dozens of other methods I could use to find this family wherever they were hiding.

What Did I Learn From the Census? And What Can Nicole Do With This Information?

1. The family surname was recorded as Gorleski, Gorlewski, Golefsky and Godleski. So Nicole will need to use wildcards or creative searching to search for more information

2. Stanley's mother's name was recorded as Anna, Antonia and Antoinette. Wildcards needed for further searching!

3. It appears that Joseph and Anna came over separately so look for Joseph alone or perhaps with sibings or cousins or parents in ships passenger lists 1888 plus/minus 2 years.

4. It appears Joseph and Anna married in USA (possibly in Pennsylvania) so look for their marrage in 1891 plus/minus 1 year

5. All the children were born in Pennsylvania, and John the eldest was most likely born in Pittsburgh in February 1892. Look for his birth record to find out Anna's maiden name

6. Joseph died between the 1920 and 1930 census. There is a good chance he died and is buried in New Kensington. Look for a death record and a grave.

7. We have months and years of birth for both the parents and the children from the 1900 census. Perhaps birth records for all the children can be found

I think this is enough to give Nicole something to keep her busy for a very long time! I really enjoyed this challenge as it forced me to step outside my usual methods of searching. It also forced me to do a lot of studying and analyzing of every bit of information I found, going step by step very slowly as I developed a working theory of the family. I love that! So thanks, Nicole!

Finding an Ancestor in Canadian WW2 Records

2011-07-04T19:00:00.000-04:00

Janet asked about a Home Child and WW2 Canadian records I am trying find out what happened to a family member who came to Canada as a home child. The information I have is:

Name, Walter Micheal Green, born England 1911,
Sent to Canada 1924, at age 13 by the Catholic Church orphanage, Coventry,England, arrived at Quebec and sent to Ontario
Lived at 62 North St, Goderich, Ontario before marriage
Married Mary Alice Thibodeau in 1944, in Chatham, NB, she was born at Palmer Rd, PEI, to Jacques and Ida Marie Thibodeau of Palmer Rd, PEI

I have't found any records of him since 1944 and I also wonder if he joined the Canadian Air Force because his last address was 2 miles from the temporary base near Goderich and he married in 1944 in Chatham near another base . Do you know if I can find persons listed in the second WW. I have searched casualties already, also cemeteries and other death records and looked for birth records for any children they may have had.

Ask Olive Tree Genealogy response: Janet, It's a shame your ancestor didn't arrive in Canada as part of Barnardo's Homes. Their records are available on request. For the Catholic Church Orphanage you might want to try to find out if their records exist and if they are open to descendants. I suggest you try Young Immigrants to Canada and see if you can find the orphanage that sent over your ancestor.

However to find your ancestor during WW2 you can request a search of the Canadian records. Just go to Library & Archives Canada and follow their instructions for ordering a search.

Figuring Out Manifest Markings on Ships Passenger Lists

2011-07-01T13:07:00.000-04:00

Kristen had a great question I am looking for some help on my great-grandfather Guy Reginald Austen Bolam.

He was born in 1900 in England, traveled back and forth between the US and England much of his life, and died in the US in 1970. His father was William Austen Bolam (AKA Austin Bolam or Cecil Austen Bolam) who was born in England around 1871 and died in 1955 in Florida. We are unsure of who his mother was.

My specific question is regarding the passenger record for his August 20, 1921 arrival in New York at Ellis Island on the ship "Aquitania." There are several notations on his and his wife Helen's entry in the original ship manifest, including those in the Head Tax column and several other places. Could you tell me what these notations mean? (I found this ship's manifest on www.ellisisland.org.)

Also, it is listed on this same ship's manifest that he previously entered the country in 1905 and 1921. While I have found an entry in 1919 (which I assume to be the stated 1921 entry), I cannot find the 1905 arrival. Do you have any suggestions?

Ask Olive Tree Genealogy Response: Kristen you've done some good researching and analyzing of the records you found for your great grandfather. Manifest markings are difficult.

You might want to check the glossary on Jewish Gen as it shows two of the markings beside your great grandpa's name:

C.L. = Certificate of Landing
USC = United States Citizen

A certificate of landing was pretty much the same as a Certificate of Arrival and was noted on passenger manifests after 1926 as part of the naturalization process.

I'm afraid I don't know what the numbers 3/24099-EF refer to but I'm willing to bet it's a case file reference of some sort.

Tips for finding the 1905 voyage referred to are probably ones you already know:

* Use wildcards such as B*l*m* for Bolam and variants
* Don't use a first name
* Use a date of birth plus/minus 5 years
* Don't use any names, just use place of birth and date plus 1905 as year of arrival
etc

Just keep playing around with a less and less restrictive search to widen the possibilities. Oh and don't forget that it's possible he arrived at a port city other than New York.

Lots of New York Genealogy Info Found With Wide-spread Search

2011-06-29T10:23:00.000-04:00

Tracy asked a question about finding her husband's grandfather

My husband’s grandfather died in Brooklyn NY in approx. 1942 and his grandmother grew up in a catholic orphanage. I have his grandmothers name and DOB and DOD. I am trying to find her information and his too if possible. They are not coming up on census from that time. Where would you suggest I go next?

I had to write and ask Tracy for more details such as names and dates of birth and death. She then sent the following:

His name was Frank or Francis Cannon I do not know his DOB but he died in Brooklyn NY area around 1942

Her name was Elizabeth Veronica McCarthy Cannon Fitzpatrick. DOB 4.27.1903 in Brooklyn NY

Her parents passed away from TB and she and her sister who was appox. 5 years older were placed in a Catholic orphanage. Never found her sister again, parents believed to have come from Ireland.

They had one son, Francis Harold Cannon

Ask Olive Tree Genealogy reply:

Tracy, I am not sure where you have checked but Italiangen.org has many New York vitals on line. A quick check there found the marriage of Francis P. Cannon and Elizabeth McCarthy on 2 Feb. 1926 in Manhattan.

Now you can send for their marriage certificate and find out their ages, their fathers' names (perhaps their mothers' too, I am not familiar with what info is on a 1926 New York Certificate)

You should check birth records there too as there is a good possibility for the birth of your Elizabeth.

Because I was intrigued by your query, I also had a quick look in census records on Ancestry.com and found a gal I am pretty sure is your Elizabeth McCarthy in the New York Catholic Protectory in 1910. It was in the Bronx. Little Elizabeth is 7 years old.

The New York Catholic Protectory for females was run by the Sisters of Charity and apparently its records survive. A google search for this agency led me to Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness

You will need to visit the site personally as they like you to read their list of requirements before making a request. Then go to the New York section, then look for BRONX and then "New York Catholic Protectory and Lincolndale-how to locate the children's records of 1880-1938." The volunteer attached to this lookup is listed and her email address is available. Simply write to her and ask how you can access these records.

The records have been microfilmed and are available but you will need the instructions on how to obtain them.

I think you are going to have a lot of fun now! Please do keep us informed here on the Ask Olive Tree Blog - just write a comment when the Marriage Certificate arrives, I know I am curious now!

A great great great grandpa by any other name...

2011-06-21T08:42:00.000-04:00

Eleanor asked about standard listing for relationships that are greats:

Can you help me with what to call a great, great, great, great, great grandfather without listing all the greats? Would he be my 4th great grandfather or 5th grandfather? Or neither?

ASK OLIVE TREE GENEALOGY RESPONSE: Hi Eleanor,

Normally you count the number of "greats" in the relationship and change that to a number. So your great great great-grandfather would be your 3rd great-grandfather. Or 3rd great grandfather (no hyphen) Some people write it as 3x great-grandfather.

Sometimes I cheat and write g-g-g-grandfather. :-)

No matter what convention you choose you must leave the "great" in before "Grandfather" or others reading will not know what you mean.

2011-06-19T14:27:00.002-04:00

Daniel asked about church records in 18th Century England

Where are birth death and marriage records from the 17th century from
Sundridge Parish Kent or any Kentish parish for that matter kept? The churchis St. Mary's in Sundridge near Seven Oaks and they simply will or cannot not answer my question.

ASK OLIVE TREE GENEALOGY ANSWER: Daniel, in my research in English records, I've found church records back to the 1500s. Many have been filmed by the Mormon Church so you might want to check their online catalogue at FamilySearch.org. They may also have the records you want online.

Those that have not been filmed are usually still kept by the local parish or church. My mother went to Kent to search in Lenham church records which have not been microfilmed but are at the local church.

You can also check Bishop's Transcripts for the church you need. Have you consulted the National Archives for the UK? Or the Centre for Kentish Studies? The Centre for Kentish Studies is the Headquarters for the Kent Archives service. It holds manuscript and printed records for the county of Kent. I am pretty sure it holds the original parish records for Sundridge churches, but I can't search the site right now as it is temporarily unavailable.

A quick check of FamilySearch online catalogue shows they have 26 sets of records for Sundridge Kent. One is a set of microfiche "The parish registers of Sundridge, Kent, 1562-1812: Baptisms, marriages and burials, 1562-1812"

Another is the Bishop's transcripts "Baptisms, 1813-1839, 1888-1904; Burials, 1813-1839, 1888-1903; Marriages, 1813-1837" on microfilm

And more... the actual parish records for "Baptisms, marriages, burials, 1562-1655 (Includes list of churchwardens, 1689-1704.) Baptisms, marriages, burials, 1653-1710 Baptisms, burials, marriages, 1710-1753 Baptisms, burials, 1754-1808; marriage, 1754 Births and baptisms, burials, 1809-1812. Baptisms, 1813-1893. Marriages, 1754-1921. Burials, 1813-1903. Banns, 1814-1901." I think that should keep you busy for awhile. Just go their catalogue and search, then copy the full information regarding film numbers etc.

Always Check a Dictionary!

2011-06-16T08:02:00.007-04:00

Brian asked about a "Champion of England"

In my family research I have come across some family lore that states that one of my ancestors was a "champion of England". I have not been able to find a reference to this anywhere on the internet and was wondering if anyone has heard of it or would know where I can look. I had been told it is several different things, but feel like until I see it in writing I cannot fully believe it. Some place that lists a description and registry would be ideal.

OLIVE TREE GENEALOGY ANSWER: Brian, a quick search on Google for the phrase "Champion of England" turned up the following definitions:

a hereditary official at British coronations, representing the king (King's Champion) or the queen (Queen's Champion) who is being crowned, and having originally the function of challenging to mortal combat any person disputing the right of the new sovereign to rule.

Source: Random House Unabridged Dictionary, Copyright © 1997, by Random House, Inc., on Infoplease.

Read more: Champion of England: meaning and definitions — Infoplease.com http://dictionary.infoplease.com/champion-of-england#ixzz1PRKSG1t3

Also:

A person whose office it is to ride up Westminster Hall on aCoronation Day, and challenge any one who disputes the right ofsuccession. The office was established by William the Conqueror

Resolving Census Discrepancies

2011-06-04T10:30:00.000-04:00

Cathy asked about an ancestor in early Ontario and how to figure out which family different individuals belong to

I am really stumped. My brick wall is James Cumming b. Jan 15/18 1830 Ontario, according to censuses. He died May 22, 901 in Norwood, Asphodel, Peterborouigh Co., Ontario, CAN. He was married to Joyce Reynolds on Dec 26 1853 in Asphodel. Joyce's family lived next to James in 1861 Census of Asphodel. [Email edited for brevity]

1861 Census of Asphodel..it is hard to tell, but at either James house or Jesse's house, is an Elizabeth Cumming b.1838. She seems to be the key. In 1851 Brighton, Northumberland, there is a James and Mary Cumming. They have a number of children, including a James(1831) and an Elizabeth(1837). This seems great. But in 1861, patriarch James also has daughter Elizabeth with him. So, she would have been enumerated twice? Once in Brighton with her father, once in Norwood, Asphodel with her brother? [Email edited for brevity]

The problem that I have is that James lists his father as having been born in Scotland in 1891, whereas the James Cumming Brighton 1851 has himself born in the USA. [Email edited for brevity]

ASK OLIVE TREE GENEALOGY RESPONSE: Dear Cathy: Thank you for sending a nice detailed email query. It always helps me to have names, dates, locations and some idea of what you've already done to solve your genealogical puzzle.

I must confess that I did get a bit overwhelmed half-way through your email as it was quite lengthy and I think you got excited as you were writing it. :-) It started out with a very clear explanation of the confusion but at the half-way mark it did get a wee bit jumbled. I know it's not easy to write a query like that!

This is not meant as a criticism; I hope you will take it as a bit of advice to perhaps read over any query and make sure that you've clearly identified each person to whom you refer. Remind your reader who you are talking about and how they fit into the family you are researching.

In any case I was very intrigued with your query and I can see that you've done a good analysis of the records you found. My apologies for editing your query and leaving off the last several paragraphs but I decided to respond to the questions I can answer without further scratching of my head.

Let's go back to your statement "1861 Census of Asphodel..it is hard to tell, but at either James house or Jesse's house, is an Elizabeth Cumming b.1838." Here is how you determine which individuals belong to which family groups in the 1861 census. If you look at the image you will see that columns 14 and 15 have numbers beside some of the names of individuals.

These columns show
Col 14. Residents: Members of Family, M
Col 15. Residents: Members of Family, F

Beside the name of the head of the household are the numbers of individuals living in the home. If you check that image for Jesse (by the way this is where I'd have liked it if you had included Jesse's surname of Reynolds so that I didn't have to keep looking back to see who Jesse was) you'll see that the numbers of residents who are family members is 5 males and 3 females for a total of 8. Counting Jesse as 1, and continuing down the page to 8 you can see that Elizabeth Cummings is #8. That means she lives with Jesse Reynolds and is considered a family member. Columns 16 and 17 are for numbers of non-family members.

Your first question is answered - Elizabeth Cummings is living with Jesse Reynolds.

If you visit AllCensusRecords.com you will find a helpful list of questions asked on all Canadian census records.

Your next question was "But in 1861, patriarch James also has daughter Elizabeth with him. So, she would have been enumerated twice? Once in Brighton with her father, once in Norwood, Asphodel with her brother?"

Again, it would have really helped me to have the surnames added so that I didn't have to look back in your email to figure out who "patriarch James" was. When you used the phrase "her father" and "her brother" it would have been really helpful if you'd added their names "her father James Cumming" and "her brother James Cumming Jr" Anything to help me distinguish the family members. Remember the person you're asking for help isn't familiar with the family.

Please note I'm using "Jr" to distinguish between the two James Cummings even though you have not definitively proven they are father and son.

But let's clear up some of the confusion - first, Elizabeth Cumming was not with her brother James Cumming in 1861. She was with Jesse Reynolds who was her brother James Cumming's father-in-law by virtue of his wife Joyce Reynolds.

Why would she be enumerated twice? If Elizabeth was a servant in Jesse Reynolds' home it is quite possible her parents gave her name to the census taker as a family member. Remember the census takers didn't count heads. They didn't verify that everyone named was actually physically in the house. We don't know who talked to the census taker the day the census was taken. Perhaps James Cumming's wife didn't understand the question. Perhaps James himself gave the information and wasn't in the mood to waste time.

So yes, James and his wife could understandably tell the census taker that daughter Elizabeth lived there. In fact we don't know if Elizabeth was a servant in Jesse Reynold's house. Perhaps she was just visiting her brother James Cumming Jr and there was more room in Jesse's house than in James. Bottom line: It is not unusual to find a person enumerated twice.

The last question is about places of birth given in census records. You say that James Cumming Jr says his dad was born in Scotland, but in an earlier census James Cumming Sr says he was born in USA. So this makes you question if you have the right father for your James Cumming Jr.

Census records are notorious for being wrong. Ages can be out by 10 or more years in different census years. Individuals give the wrong place of birth for their parents or even themselves. We have to remember that we don't know who gave the details to the census taker. Was it even a family member? Was it the next door neighbour? A young child? Because we don't know the original source we shouldn't accept the census as absolute truth nor should we use it to prove or disprove an individual's fit into a specific family without more proof.

I hope these answers help you in your genealogy challenge and I hope you don't mind that I used your email to illustrate how confusing a query can be for the person trying to assist. Your email was very well written and had lots of needed details so my harping about suggested additions are just small details that I hope did not offend you in any way.

Write a Good Query and Check All Genealogy Resources!

2011-06-02T14:13:00.000-04:00

Carney asked about genealogical information in various Upper Canada records:

i have an ancestor, hill carney, yeoman, from, oxford , sussex county, new jersey, he was a member of upper hardwick presbyterian church, and a loyalist, he arrived upper canada, 1794, was granted E.U. L., status, 1797, and acrown land patent of 400 acres. hill carney was a family member of john rosbrugh's family, but may have preceeded him to upper canada. i wish to know if any genealogical information is usually contained in these records, as i believe he died in upper canada.

ASK OLIVE TREE GENEALOGY RESPONSE: Hello Carney - Before I answer your question, I hope you will take a couple of suggestions about writing a query. You've used commas extensively in your query but they aren't necessary and they interfere with reading your question. It's a good idea to proof-read your query before you send it and make sure it's easy on the eyes of the person you are asking for help. You also neglected to put any spaces after all your periods and commas. That made reading your query more difficult.

Now for your question. I'm a believer in "leave no genealogical stone unturned" That means I find and read every single genealogical record I can get my hands on. I urge you to do the same. You have no way of knowing what genealogical information might be found in one record. For example the Upper Canada Land Petitions can hold a wealth of genealogical detail, or they can hold very little. Since your ancestor was a Loyalist he is almost sure to be found in these records.

Library and Archives Canada (LAC) has an online database, Index to Upper Canada Land Petitions (1763-1865). Why not have a look to see if your ancestor is found, then check the full record. Before you search this index, how sure are you that your ancestor's name was Hill Carney? I ask because there is a record for a Will Carney in the UCLP Index. Perhaps the index is incorrect? I suspect these are the same individual.

There are many genealogy records for Upper Canada and Loyalists that you can (and should!) check.

Is This MY Great Great Grandma?

2011-05-31T13:10:00.000-04:00

Richard's genealogy question is about a discrepancy for his great-great grandmother:

My great great grandma was born in Sept 1854, she came to the US in 1860. She was married in 1873. Up to that point there is no problem, after that period there is. From the 1880 census onward she has a completely different middle name from her birth record. She even named her children this name, and I am extremely confused. I have been doing genealogy for a long time but never encountered this and it concerns me. Is this possible and what would be the reason why she doesn't use her real middle name? Could someone have told her the wrong middle name? She came here as child and she probably never saw her birth record from England, why would she need to if she was here as a child? So I am thinking that her stepmother told her wrong (her mother died or they were divorced, and I can't find her...that is a mystery for another day!). Her dad was there so why wouldn't he get it right? Do you think I need to ask myself if I have the right person (everything fits except that middle name!)? Thank you very much for your kind assistance, it is greatly appreciated!

ASK OLIVE TREE GENEALOGY response: Hi Richard. You have quite a challenge and interesting discrepancy on your hands. You haven't told me what steps you've taken to prove this is the right ancestor. So I need to ask you but first let me call the woman whose birth record you have "A" and the woman in the census from 1880 on "B"

1. Have you found a marriage record for Great Great Grandmother "A" whose birth record you have?

2. Have you checked to be sure that great great grandpa didn't marry TWO women with the same first name but different middle names? In other words perhaps "A" is NOT the same woman as "B" who you say gave her children that different middle name... Perhaps "A" died between 1873 and 1880, and grandpa remarried to "B"

3. Have you looked for an obit for "B"? Perhaps her maiden name is given and that will prove or DISprove if she is the same woman as "A"

4. Have you checked the marriages of all the children of great great grandpa? They should give their mother's maiden name and again that will allow you to see if "A" and "B" are the same person

You asked me why a woman would not use her "real" middle name - assuming that "A" and "B" are the same person and that she decided to use a different middle name, what could be the reasons? (by the way what ARE the two names she used??)

- perhaps she didn't like her middle name
- perhaps she didn't know it and as you suggested, perhaps her step mom told her it was something else
- don't get too hung up on "why didn't her father set her straight" because sometimes men do not know their children's birth dates and it would not surprise me if a middle name wasn't known.
- since you didn't tell me the two different names (I am extremely curious!!) is it possible that one is a nickname or variaton of the other? For example Delia and Bridget are the same name. Helena/Magdelena/Lena are interchangeable too. There are many names like that.

So please do comment or write to me privately and tell me the middle names used, maybe I can help further.

When Asking for Help, Provide Needed Information

2011-05-27T09:47:00.005-04:00

Ching asked a question about his (her?) grandfather

Hi, I wonder if you could help me find my grandfather in my father's side, I don't know how to start because my father didn't got a chance to meet him since birth, No one even wants to tell my grandpa's name. I don't know what to do now. Can you give me some solutions? thank you!

AskOliveTree.blogspot.com response:

Dear Ching - You've given me a generic question so I can only give you a brief generic answer.

You have not told me a location (where did your father or grandfather live? USA? Canada? China? Australia? Germany? .... or.....)

You have not given me a year or approximate year (or even century!). Since I have no idea how old YOU are, I can't being to estimate a year of birth for your grandfather. For example, if you are 20, and your dad was 20 when you were born, and your grandpa 20 when your dad was born, that takes us back to an estimated birth year of 1950 or so. So, one necessary fact in any query is LOCATION

Provide a continent, a state, a province, a parish, a city or town name - something to allow the person to guide you. All countries hold different genealogy records at different times and in different repositories

But if you are 50 and your dad was 30 and your grandpa 30 we start getting estimated birth years for grandpa of circa 1900! See the difference? And of course I have no way of knowing anyone's ages when their son/daughter was born. Another necessary fact in a query is YEAR

Always give some kind of estimate in a query, such as "My grandfather was born around 1910"

So jumping back to your question. You will have to start looking for birth and marriage records. Find your dad's birth record or his marriage record. That should give his father's name (depending what country you are searching in, and the time period!)

Perhaps there are available census records, depending on your dad's year of birth. And where he was born and lived.

Talk to family members - aunts, uncles, cousins, anyone you can find, and ask questions.

One other suggestion when asking for help - it's best to follow instructions on the website as to where to write for the help you want. You posted your query as a comment on another blog post. But at the top of every page on my blog it explains that you must send your query to ASKOLIVE@GMAIL.COM

Normally I delete queries that are posted as comments. I made an exception with yours because I hope you will take my suggestions, rewrite your query with the needed details, and resubmit to the correct email address.

I'd love to help you if I can

Looking For a Scottish Ancestor

2011-05-23T09:15:00.004-04:00

Judy asked about James Galloway from Scotland

am looking for immigration records on James H Galloway. The middle name is either Herbert or Hubbard. According to the 1880 US census it states he immigrated in 1898 and was naturalized in 1904. We know thes may or may notbe accurate. I do know in 1907 he married Laura Hanfelder in Madison County, Granite City, IL and they lived there until 1920 where he shows up in Decatur, Macon Co., IL and lived there until his death in 1942. I have not been able to find him in 1900. The story is he immigrated from Glasgow, Scotland; that his parents died when he was a baby and his grandfather adopted him. The grandfather was a ships's captain and took James with him and tutored him on the ships. This is just a story. We do know that his mother's name was Mary White (maiden name I presume).James was approximately age 23 when he came to US. Can you help?

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: Dear Judy, I'm going to assume you made a typo when you said that the 1880 census gave James' immigration as 1898 and naturalization in 1904. Obviously if he immigrated in 1898 he isn't on the 1880 census, nor could that census predict his future years of immigration and naturalization.

But in any case, if you pop over to FamilySearch and search their Illinois, Deaths and Stillbirths, 1916-1947, you'll find James' death in 1942.

The image is not available but here is the search result information

Name: James H. Galloway
Death Date: 06 Oct 1942
Death Place: Decatur, Macon County, Illinois
Age: 68
Birth Date: 13 Jul 1874
Birthplace: Glasgow, Scotland
Father: James Galloway
Father's Birth Place: Scotland
Mother: Mary White
Mother's Birth Place: Scotland
Occupation: Plant Supt.-Staley bMfg.Co.
Residence: Decatur, Macon County, Illinois
Spouse: Laura Hanfelder
Burial Date: 09 Oct 1942
Burial Place: Decatur, Macon County, Illinois
Cemetery: Fairlawn
Digital Folder Number: 4008600
Image Number: 1357
Film Number: 1851787
Volume/Page/Certificate Number: 3956

Now you have his exact date of birth and parents' names. Scottish records are very good and I'm quite sure a search of Scotland's People would turn up much more on this family.

Missing Person Means a Missing PIece of the Genealogy Puzzle

2011-05-18T13:42:00.000-04:00

Michelle asked about her father

I have searched and searched and searched and searched till im all out of ability and resources to look. seriously.my father, yes...THAT close to me, is a man I cant seem to find any (if any) inforation on ANYWHERE. I come close, but because the middle name is spelled different, I don’t think its him.

his name:Robert Alan Manning (the one I find is: Robert Allen Manning)

born: sometime in the 1930s ? the other: 1931. my mom was born in 1935, and he was older than her, so hed be 1934 or before that.

married? I don’t know when to my mother (if ever)? the other: has no family so-to-speak of listed beyond himself.my mothers name when married: Gay Joanne Suiter

now, heres the tricky part:
my dad was married to at least 3 women and divorced from none of them

1 was in utah, they had 3 sons
2 was in california and had a daughter/moms name was either linda or cheryl, daughter was the oppsite name cheryl or linda
3 my mom, and me

and that’s ALL the wives I know up to me, pretty sure there were others beyond me.

on my birth certificate he lists his birthplace as: Hong Kong. my mom said he was born in San Francisco. he also listed his job as: Movie Director, he was some kind of maintenance man/janitor person

so, knowing he has a lying past...has made it hard. he supposedly has a half brother named: jesse/Jessie/jessy. his mother was supposed to have married allot of men during my fahters growing up years.his father was supposed to have killed himself in texas (date unknown)

he was in the army...im guessing after 1938-1952? if he entered at 18.

how can I even know anything about this family tree when I cant even complete the 1st leaf? id be so appreciative if you could help me and find some resolve or a small clue even..

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: Michelle, you have a lot to figure out and I am sure it's been very frustrating for you. I don't usually give advice for finding a person who might still be living (as your dad might be) because people who disappear usually don't want to be found. But your query captured my interest so I'd like to try to give you some ideas for more reesarch.

I saw another post you made online and it gave a bit more detail so I'll be referring to that as well as what you wrote to me. You mentioned that your parents were together for 2 years but you don't seem sure if they were legally married.

My first step would be to talk to your mother if she is still alive and if it won't upset her. If they were married you may be able to get a copy of the licence which should give your father's name and hopefully his parents' names. Pay close attention to any witness names as they may be relatives. Ask her who came to the wedding.

Also, ask your mom what she remembers during the time they were together - who did they hang around with? His friends? His family? Ask for names, even if they are not related. You may have better luck tracking a friend than trying to immediately find your dad.

Where did he work while they were together? Ask your mom. You might be able to find out more about him through his workplace.

Find out if he ever got mail from a relative - maybe your mother can remember who it was from or what city it was mailed from. Basically you are trying to get clues and details from anything your mom can remember from that time period.

What about your father's parents? Did your grandparents know about you? Did they ever visit? The more you talk to your mom the more she is probably going to remember.

Have you talked to your mom's family - sisters, brothers, cousins? They may know something, some little detail that will help you in your search.

If he told the truth on your birth certificate about being born in Hong Kong, then there should be a ships passenger list for his arrival in the USA. It would be interesting to know why your mom is so sure he was born in San Francisco. Perhaps he told her something of his childhood or teen years which would help you trace him.

Have you checked newspapers to see if there is anything for Robert Allan Manning? You may want to try GenealogyBank.com I would not be concerned with the spelling of Allan. It could be Alan, or Allen and still be the same man.

Finding an Ancestor in Ontario before 1858

2011-05-14T12:42:00.063-04:00

Susan asked a question about ancestors in St. Mary's Perth County Ontario

My family is the John Edmondson and Mary Ann Oddy. They lived in St Mary's, Blanchard twp. Perth County from 1837'ish. Had 9 children Sarah 1842,Alice 1844, Elizabeth 1845, Annie 1848, William 1849,Thomas 1851, Ruth 1854, James 1857 and John 1858. I am looking for info of any kind.

Susan, I hope you saw my response to another St. Mary's ancestor query. The information about the St. Mary's Museum, the CLRI which is an index to early land records, and early tax and assessment records may be helpful

Also, you should check the online 1851 census for your names. I had a quick look and I see that they lived in a log shanty. That's a very poor and very temporary home, so either they had not been in that location very long or they were quite impoverished. You can see this information on the second page of the 1851 census. Don't overlook that facing page as it tells you things such as who was in school, who was absent when the census was taken, and more. I see that their eldest child is listed as being in school but also noted as being absent.

Interestingly the names recorded in 1851 don't quite agree with your list above. John and Mary Ann are the parents but children in order of birth are William? R., Margaret, Sarah J., Alice, Elizabeth, Ann and what looks like Willin (possibly William which would mean the first child has a different first name than I was able to decipher)

Lucky you, your John is also on the 1851 Agricultural Census for St. Mary's. This will show you his exact land location, how many acres he owned, how many were cultivated, what he had planted, livestock he owned and so on. For more details on the 1851 Agricultural Census see my blog post Finding Ancestors on 1851 Agricultural Census Canada

There is a second adult Edmonson living with him or right next door but I am unable to easily decipher the first name. I'll leave it to you to have that fun! Another fun fact for you to consider is that a William Oddy shows as living very near your ancestor in the Agricultural Census.

I see that a Leonard Edmonson, age 66 is living beside (or possibly in the same house) as your John Edmonson in 1861 census. It may be Leonard whose name I could not decipher in the 1851 Agricultural Census. No doubt he is a relative, perhaps a father or uncle. Again, the Gods of Genealogy are on your side, as your John is found online in the 1861 Agricultural Census!

Back to Leonard - he's in the 1851 Personal Census for St. Mary's with his wife Elizabeth. And nearby is William Oddy with family. You'll definitely want to check those individuals out.

I neglected to suggest to Sharon (the other St Mary's query) that she should have a look in the Church Records for St. Mary's but this is something you may want to do. The Edmonson's religion is noted in all the census records so you can have a hunt for the church in St. Mary's that they might have attended.

Ancestor Enlists with Two Names in CEF

2011-05-12T09:53:00.049-04:00

Debbie asked a question about an ancestor in the CEF (Canadian Expeditionary Force) in WW1

i found a record for a olvar william david bates..except he is listed as muxlow instead of bates.. muxlow is his mothers maiden name and the year of birth is off by two years which makes him 16 when enlisted. My question is how was it possible for him to enlist in 1915 under his mothers maiden name was he was registered in the birth records and on the 1901 census as bates plus he would have been 16. I am baffled

Debbie - I'm pretty sure you meant Orval, not Olvar as your ancestor's first name.

Your first step would be to compare the two sets of attestion papers which you can do on Ancestry.com. or on the LAC website.

MUXLOW Orval William. Regimental Number 136227 (on Ancestry.com.)
front
Name: Orval William Muxlow
Birth: Petrolia Ontario
Father: Lazarus Muxlow
Next of Kin Residence: Calgary Alberta
Date of birth: Dec. 12, 1896
Occupation: Teamster
Marital Status: Single
Date: Sept. 8, 1915
Place where Signed Up: Toronto Ontario

Muxlow - back
Age 18 years 9 months
Height: 5' 7 1/4 inches
Scar under left eye, tip of 3rd finger left hand missing
Blue eyes, brown hair
Church of England

In the MUXLOW attestation papers there is a note at the top "Struck off - illegally absent" "Struck off" usually means the soldier has gone AWOL and so has been removed from (struck off) the regiment rolls. You would probably learn more if you order the full file for him. He may have run off when he realized he was going to be sent to the Young Soldier's Battalion for underage boys who lied on their enlistment papers.

BATES, Orval William David. Regimental Number 802072 (not found on Ancestry.com. but indexed on LAC website)

You will have to send for BOTH files as the Attestation Papers are one page only. The full file if it has survived will have more information and will allow you to compare the two men.

I suggest that your Orval enlisted under his real name of MUXLOW and lied about his age. He was found out and may have run off (AWOL). If he waited 2 more years until he was of age, he may have been afraid to give his real name as he'd gone AWOL under it. So he used his mom's maiden name of BATES.

Please keep us informed as I'm very curious now!

Finding the Connection to an Established Family Line

2011-05-10T10:06:00.054-04:00

Matthew wrote to ask about the Van Slyke family

My moms side of the family is related to Cornelise Antonissen Van Slyke. I can't seem to find out where they marry into that part of the family. My great grandmother would talk about Mohican ancestry and this part of our family. Her maiden name was Lois May Cox and became Lois Snow. Her husband was Harry E. Snow. Her fathers name was George W. Cox and it is hard to find out who her mother was. I believe her mothers maiden name was Baxter. It was in Erie, Pennsylvania and she was born about 1912. I was just wondering if you have any info on the cox family marrying into the Van Slyke side.

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONDS: Hi Matthew - As you know, the Van Slyke family is near and dear to me. In fact I've written three books on the family. Two are about Cornelis Van Slyke and his Mohawk wife Ots-Toch, as well as their descendants, while the third is about Cornelis' nephew Willem and his descendants.

However I find no mention of COX marrying into the family in my records. So you will have to go about this the old-fashioned way. That means starting with Lois Cox and going back one generation at a time until you either find the link or you prove it didn't happen.

Since it's a Van Slyke query I was really interested in helping you link to the family so I checked census records on Ancestry.com. It wasn't too difficult to find Lois and her parents in 1920, and to keep going back every ten years to 1910, 1900, etc. tracing her COX lineage.

The problem is finding the maiden names of spouses. To do that you will need to look for marriage records. Some may be online but many will have to be looked for offline, meaning repositories, libraries, archives and state or county government offices.

You could also look for maiden names of spouses in the birth records of children but again you may have to extend your search to offline resources.

Let me give you a brief outline of what I found:

1920 Census Girard, Erie Pennsylvania: 7 year old Lois M. Cox with parents George W. 46 born Pennsylvania, both parents born Pennsylvania. Wife Ida M. 36 born Pennsylvania, both parents born Pennsylvania

1910 Census Girard, Erie Pennsylvania. 36 year old George W. Cox born PA now says his dad born New York and mother PA with wife Ida M. 28 birth and parents birth locaation same as 1920

1900 Census Girard, Erie Pennsylvania. George Cox born June 1874 Pennsylvania with parents William Cox 52, born New York. father born England, mother born Wales. NOTE that if this is correct for William's parents, this is not the Van Slyke link. Wife Nancy born New York, father Connecticut, mother New York. NOTE that Nancy could be the Van Slyke link - you need to find her maiden name or her mother's maiden name.

1880 Census Girard, Erie Pennsylvania confirms the birth places of William Cox and his wife Nancy as well as their parents

I would look for the birth of George Cox in June 1874 in Pennsylvania. You need to know his mother's maiden name. A search of the WW1 Draft Cards on Ancestry.com. reveals George's full date of birth as 30 June 1874. Pennsylvania birth certificates prior to 1906 can be accessed through the courthouse in the county where the person was born.

You could also hunt for the marriage of William and Nancy. The 1900 census reveals they married in 1874. Of course each census that I listed above has more detail such as occupation and other children's names so you could look for George's siblings' birth records if his fails to turn up. Don't overlook tracing George's wife Ida to find her surname - for she may be the Van Slyke connection your family spoke of.

This may not help you figure out your Van Slyke connection, but your George W. Cox is found enlisting in the Pennsylvania National Guard 27 November 1899. You'll want to have a look as the card provides a nice description of him plus his unit.

Scotland to Ontario to Michigan - Finding an Elusive Ancestor

2011-05-07T14:37:00.000-04:00

Sharon asked about an ancestor from St. Mary's Ontario which is where my husband's ancestors are from:

My 3 great grandfather, Andrew Ross, has been a brick wall for as long as I have been addicted to genealogy. I know he was born 9 Nov 1807 in Scotland,"came to Canada" before he ended up in Macomb Co, Michigan by 1843.

I had found a book source saying he "he came from Inverness";the writer was NOT a genealogist. I found several errors in the book. Recently, I found another source (family Bible) saying Andrew had been born in Edinburgh; his wife, Jane Mac Donald in Glasgow.

They had several children "born in Canada"(1834,36,38). The Bible has a record of one son,Andrew ,Jr as being "Born in St. Mary's, Ontario 1 Dec 1840."

The next child was my 3 great grandfather George Alexander Ross born in Macomb Co, Michigan 23 Apr 1843.Do you have ANY suggestion as to where I could begin to look for this family?

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: Sharon, I noted with interest your reference to St. Mary's Ontario. My husband's paternal and maternal ancestry is from this town. It was settled in 1841 and originally called Little Falls.

Since your ancestors were not there for long, your best bet is most likely the St. Mary's Museum. Contact them and ask for any information they have on your ancestors.

There may be early tax or assessment records for your ancestors. There may be land records. The Museum may not have these specific records so you will also want to consult the Archives of Ontario website to see what genealogy records exist pre 1843 for St. Mary's.

Don't overlook the Perth County GenWeb in your search. I see that Andrew was a farmer in Michigan. I'd check the CLRI for his name. If he was the first owner of land owned by the Crown it will be listed.

Have you checked Michigan death records on FamilySearch? There is an Andrew Ross born ca 1808 in Scotland who died in 1884 in Macomb Michigan. His parents names are given so if that is your ancestor you have another lead. Did his wife Jane die and did Andrew remarry? I ask because there is an Andrew Ross, widower, marrying in Macomb in 1868.

I'd also check Scotlands People if I were you. It's a fee based website but well worth the money if you have Scottish ancestry!

NARA Fire of 1973?

2011-05-05T15:41:00.010-04:00

Sue asked a very good question about a fire at NARA in 1973. I do not know the answer, but am doing something a little different today on AskOliveTree by posting Sue's question anyway! I'm hoping one of my readers might have some advice for Sue. Please post any suggestions or advice in the comment section for Sue to read.

We are searching for information on a deceased relative who served in the Army in the 40s. First in WW2, then in peace time. We've submitted paperwork to the NARA to do a military records search. We were able to find his army serial number and submitted that with our request. Sadly, the response today saying that the records were lost in the fire of 1973. Right now this appears to be a brick wall. Wondering if you've encountered this problem and have any suggestions of where to look next. We're interested in trying to piece together his military history.

Looking for an Ancestor in Italy

2011-04-28T15:37:00.000-04:00

Carol asked a question about genealogy research in Italy

I am unable to find records from Italy. I am new to geneology and don't know how to continue. I know the village from where my ancesters come from and I know last names. How do I continue my research. My ancesters are Ponzis and Pandolfis and were born in Campotosto, Italy in late 1800s.

Dear Carol - I am not an expert in Italian genealogy research but I would start with FamilySearch catalogue online to see what Italian records they may have microfilmed or digitized.

Being curious I did a quick search for Compostoto Italy on FamilySearch and found they have the Civil Registrations starting very early! You are looking for Campotosto (L'Aquila).

You may want to visit Italian GenWeb for a list of addresses for Compostoto

Finding a Burial or Death Record in Ontario Canada

2011-04-09T14:00:00.000-04:00

Walter wrote with a lengthy outline of his family (from England to New York and on to Ontario Canada) and he asked several questions. I'm going to extract one small portion of his email and respond to that question. I will respond to his other questions at a later date:

Mary Manns(Hutchens) died on 12 October 1862 at age 40 and is buried in Bayfield (Public) Cemetery in HU-3241-B. The CFA listing shows her "Manns, Mary West". The West's and Manns were neighbors I am told and Mary was buried in their plot or section. Fredric Manns, her husband is buried in the same Cemetery and apparently in the same section according to OCFA records. I would like to know the Address of the Cemetery in order to communicate with them. I want to find out the date of Frederik's death and if he is buried next to or near Mary

ASK OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Dear Walter, When you searched OCFA (Ontario Cemetery Finding Aid) online for your ancestors, you overlooked something helpful. The Ref. you quoted above (HU-3241-B) is very important. Let me explain what it tells you.

The opening page is at http://ocfa.islandnet.com/

Look down that first page until you see the following text

Once you have located an ancestor in OCFA and know the Reference number, you are ready to contact the contributing organization for more information.

Click on the link for CONTRIBUTING ORGANIZATION.

A new page loads. Using the FIND feature on your browser, hunt for HU (the start of your Ref number for Mary Mann's burial)

You will next see
"For REFERENCE FIELD numbers beginning with "HU-", write to..."

Bingo! There's the address for Huron Co. Ontario Genealogical Society Branch. Write to them with Mary and Frederik's details and request a lookup.

If you are intent on skipping the Huron Co. branch OGS and writing directly to the Cemetery, just Google it or order the microfilmed records via ILL (InterLibraryLoan) to read through it. Have you checked the Huron Co. GenWeb site to see what is online?

Finding an Ancestor on Ships Passenger Lists circa 1846

2011-04-07T08:02:00.000-04:00

Mary Lou asked about a ships passenger list circa 1846.

I have searched for many years for name of ship my g-grandfather Joseph Ecabert, age 28, farmer, came over on. He was from Switzerland. His passport was dated March 23, 1846. There was a cousin Joseph who came with brother Ignace in April 1847 and some have confused him with my Joseph. I don't know where he left from nor where he landed. I first found him in New Albany, Floyd County, Indiana in 1850.

Mary Lou - My first question is how you know that "cousin" Joseph is not your Joseph? I"m not saying you are wrong, but wondering if you have proof they are not the same man. Did you trace "cousin" Joseph to prove he was in a different place or with a different family at the same time as your Joseph?

Let's assume you have proof they are not the same person. With a surname like Ecabert you need to be very creative when searching. Use wildcards if possible. For example on Ancestry.com you can search for e*b*rt and that would pick up many variant spellings

Have you allowed a year or two past the date you have for his passport application? He may have arrived much later than you think.

Don't forget he might have come in via Canada and if he did you are probably out of luck as ships passenger lists to Canada did not have to archived until 1865.

Look for naturalization records if he naturalized. Some census years will give you that information. For example the 1870 census will show you if he was a citizen of the USA. If yes, you know he was naturalized.

Border Crossings Between USA & Canada - What Exists

2011-03-21T12:46:00.000-04:00

Lorene asked a question about Border Crossings between Canada and USA

My question is Boarder crossings Canada to Michigan, USA.My Great-Gr Father Robert R. Fields Born in Canada abt 1848 [were abts unknown] Crossed over Lake Erie to Michigan and married Laura Normandy Morse on Nov 21,1872 Macomb County, Michigan, USA. After fathering 5 Children he left Michigan with out his Family and crossed back to Canada. Last child born was 1882. Question would he need some sort of ID ? Boarder Crossing or Passport? If so were would you suggest to search.

Lorene, the short answer is "NO". In April 1908, the Canadian government began recording the names of immigrants crossing into the country from the U.S. Border Crossing Records from U.S. to Canada exiat for these years. From Canada to U.S. Border Crossing Records exist for the years 1895-1956.

The Border Crossing Records are found on Ancestry.com

Sadly you are out of luck as no form of ID was required before those years. It was an open border and folks crossed over as they wished.

However since your ancestor was born about 1848 in "Canada" you can search for him in the 1851 census. A word of caution - Canada is the second largest country in the world. You MUST find out a more specific place of birth - a province at the very minimum or you will not be able to find him.

What do census records say for his birth place? Canada English? Canada French? Upper Canada? (UC) Lower Canada? (LC) Canada West? (CW) Canada East? (CE) These are all indicators of provinces.

Quebec = CE, LC, usually Canada French
Ontario = CW, UC, usually Canada English

FInding an Ancestor on a Canadian Ships Passenger List after 1865

2011-03-18T08:09:00.000-04:00

William asked about a Canadian Ships Passenger List

I am searching for the name of the passenger ship on which my mother Maria Drobka and her companion Demiyr Hryhirczuk both of Bulovina Ukraine departed from Hamburg, Bremen or Antwerp and arrived in a Canadian port of Halifax, St.John or Montreal in 1907.

Hi William - You are in luck because incoming Canadian Ships Passenger Lists have been indexed and are online at Ancestry.com.

They are also online at Library & Archives Canada but they are not indexed on that site so you would have to search page by page for your ancestor's name.

Abbreviations in Dutch Genealogy Records Defined

2011-03-15T11:43:00.000-04:00

Virginia asked a very good question about genealogy abbreviations.

Reading your lineage of the Post family and the Pane-Joyce Genealogy for the same family I find the abbreviations "ym" and "yd" that do not seem to mean "year married" or "year died". What do these mean? I am new to finding my family's history and haven't found where these abbreviations are defined. Thank you for taking the time to help this "newbie".

Virginia - Excellent question. I neglected to give a link to where these Dutch church abbreviations are explained.

Please see Translations of Words in Dutch Church Records for y.m, y.d and other commonly used abbreviations

Narrowing Genealogical Possibilities

2011-02-27T13:01:00.000-05:00

Jan asked a question about an orphaned ancestor

I'm trying to identify the birth parents of my ancestor Charlotte Weeks who was five years old when her parents were killed in a horse carriage accident in Peterborough, Ontario, Canada. She was born on 3 August 1868, so the year of the accident was either 1873 or 1974 if my mother's memory serves her right. I checked some Peterborough death incidents online from that period but couldn't find that particular one. Weeks/Weekes is not her birth surname, but the surname of her adoptive parents. Short of going to Peterborough Public Library myself to research the obits in the paper, how can I find out the identity of the mother and father who were killed?

ASK OLIVE TREE answer: Hi Jan, what a challenge! I do have some suggestions that might help in your quest. It's all about compiling lists of possibilities and then finding ways to narrrow that list.

1. Have you checked 1871 census for Ontario? Charlotte should be found with her parents. I'd check the census and make a list of *all* girls named Charlotte living in the right place of the right age to be yours. Then I'd check Ontario death registrationsto see if any of the parents of the Charlottes you found died in 1873-1874. I'd also check the 1881 census to see which of the 1871 Charlottes you found are still with parents. You can narrow your list down quite a bit to probably a handful of possibilities left

2. Have you written to Peterborough Public Library to see if you can pay to have obits searched for the time period you need?

3. Who did Charlotte say her parents were on her marriage record?

4. I had a peek at the 1881 census when Charlotte was living with the Weeks family. A good clue there - her ethnic origin is given as Scottish. So quite possibly she was baptised in a Presbyterian church. Also the Weeks were rather elderly to be adopting such a young child. Is there a chance they were relatives - perhaps even grandparents? I'd check them out very carefully.

5. Check local church records for her birth (see #4 above) since if she was born in 1868 she was a year too early for Ontario birth registrations

6. Check Peterborough cemeteries for a man and wife who died on or near the same day in 1873 or 1874.

7. Check Ontario death registations by searching in the Peterborough area month by month. You're looking for two people with same last name, man and woman, who died on the same day or close to the same day.

Most of the suggestions I've given you can be searched at Ancestry.com.

French, Dutch or Something Else!!

2011-01-29T00:09:00.001-05:00

Josie asked an interesting question about a surname origin.

Hi Josie - Often when we're stumped on finding an ancestor outside of N. America, we want to find out the surname origin, thinking we can find the elusive ancestor that way. But that honestly isn't much help.

looking for help with the translation of the above name. I have an ancestor who was born in the Netherlands supposedly in Vorden, (Gelderland) in 1827. I think his father was Hubert. His name in Australia was Samuel De La Cour but I can’t get any response on Genlias for that spelling. Do you happen to know if the name needs to be translated and to what. It looks French to me.

Let's say that your Samuel's surname is French. How does that help you? You have no idea if his father was the first ancestor born in France, or his grandfather, or great-grandfather, or...

In other words, Samuel's surname might very well have its roots in France but you have no idea how many years back!

I agree that "de la.." makes us assume it is French but not necessarily. "cour" could be a variation of the French word for run, or it could me a phonetic misrepresentation of "coeur" which is French for "heart" But again, it could have an entirely different ethnic origin!

It is always best to simply go one step at a time. Start with Samuel and work backwards, one ancestor at a time. Find out where they were born, when they lived there, and so on. Just keep plugging away with census, church records, vital registrations - the usual.

Don't get too hung up on spelling. Names were often recorded phonetically if a clerk mis-heard the name. So your surname might be Delacour, De La Cour, De La Coeur or any other variant.

If your Samuel is the Samuel De La Cour who married in Victoria Australia in 1856 to Margaret Gordon Steel, why not send for his marriage record? Surely it will have his parents' names, and possibly more details that will help you.

If this is your Samuel, his death is recorded in 1870 in Bendigo Australia and again, you can send for his death record for more information. His widow Margaret died in Bendigo in 1874, perhaps there are even obituaries to be found.

I spent about 15 minutes looking for Samuel on Ancestry.com and Trove Newspapers. You should also check CoraWeb for ships' passenger lists.

Also you mentioned there was no record of your Samuel's surname (De La Cour) on Genlias. There is. But you must follow their instructions for searching, and use ONLY the last bit "Cour"! You will find many De La Cour and La Cour individuals using this method.

Finding a Ship Ireland to Canada 1822

2011-01-25T10:50:00.010-05:00

Bill wrote with a challenging question about a ship arriving in Canada in 1822

I'm trying to find information on the passage that my great, great grandfather John Worthington had with his family. He sailed from Dublin, Ireland on 11 April 1822 and arrived in Québec on 23 Jun 1822 with his wife Mary (Dagge) and son Edward Dagge W. and daughter Mary W. I don't know the name of the ship. I'd also love to confirm that they lived in Dunleckney, co. Carlow.

I found the above in notes of my grandfather and in a biography of Edward Dagge Worthington that was published in The Canadian Biographical Dictionary and Portrait Gallery of Eminent and Self-made Men, American Biographical Publishing Company, 1882, p. 103. I have some information on their life in Quebec where John was a shoemaker, but nothing regarding their travel from Ireland to Canada.

Hi Bill,

First let me say how lucky you are to have found such details on your ancestors. The time period you are looking in is very challenging, as ships passenger lists to Canada were not archived until 1865.

There are substitutes such as finding an immigrant's passage up the St. Lawrence River on a steamship. Sue Swiggum of TheShipsList.com is busy extracting these records and also newspaper notices of ship arrivals.

You may want to check her page for 1822 arrivals and see if any of the ships listed fit with your details as to date of departure or arrival.

If that is not successful I suggest you visit Filling in the Gaps which is a page of links to ALL online projects bringing these early substitute ships passenger records online. You will find links to JJ Cooke Shipping Records, Immigration Agent Records and more.

Correction from a Reader re Age of Majority

2011-01-23T10:41:00.001-05:00

My good friend Howard Swain very kindly sent this email to me regarding an earlier post I made about the Dutch age of majority in New Netherland

I appreciate both Barbara and Howard catching my error and responding with an answer with sources!

I think you are mistaken when you said "The Dutch age of majority was 21...".

I think Barbara was correct that it was 25 based on Roman-Dutch law. I do not have a primary source for this, but instead I refer you to this article:

"The Paternity of Aert Theunissen Middagh: A suggestion;

The Ancestry of Theunis Gysbertszen Bogaert: A Caveat"

by Cameron Allen in TAG vol. 36, no. 3 (July 1960), pp 129 - 136. (TAG up through vol. 48 is now available to members online at the NEHGS(now American Ancestors) website.)

Among other things, the above article also deals with the situation in which the date at which a young man acquired property was known, and they wanted to determine what that would say about his age.

It turns out that, "Roman-Dutch Law permitted a child of whatever age to acquire land." (p. 133) He cites for this: Robert Warden Lee,An Introduction to Roman-Dutch Law, 1953, 5th ed., p. 47.

The article also on p. 133 mentions that the age of majority was 25, citing Lee, p. 43.

Free BDM Gives Researcher the Answer

2011-01-21T11:14:00.002-05:00

Here's a question about a 1940s English marriage that is very easily answered.

hi my name is...marie. i would be graeful if you could help in anyway.i am searching for my granfathers birthday or members of his family.everything i have tried gives me 0.but i search marriages in uk,and there he his.anyway i have no livithatng relative who can help me;you are my last hope; his name is charles pluquet, he came from belgium ,i think he was born on or around 1920,he married my gan ln or about 1941 in stockton on tees north riding and had one child (my mother) marie astrid in 1942 and they seperated 2 years later.that is all i know thank you, p.s my gran was called Alice milburn who later married john prosser,

Hello Marie - I guess you are not familiar with the Free BMD website. Free BMD carry transcriptions of the Civil Registration index of births, marriages and deaths for England and Wales

A quick search and bingo, Charles and Alice's marriage popped up.

Mar 1941 Distict: Cleveland (Yorkshire) Volume: 9d Page: 1089

Using the Date, volume and page number as found on Free BMD you can now order their marriage certificate. There you will find Charles' age, occupation and father's name (perhaps his mother's name as well) plus more info on Alice and other details such as witnesses, who may be relatives.

For help with ordering the marriage certificate, see Ordering English Certificates of Birth, Marriage or Death online

Finding an Ancestor in Belgium

2011-01-14T09:46:00.000-05:00

I received several queries from a woman, let's call her Ms. X. In this one she wants to know how to find an ancestor from Belgium.

Her question:

I need your help deaperatley, I have tried every web site to trace my grandfather (charles pluquet.from begium) it seems as though he did,nt exsist no body as heard of the name let alone him,I have even tried to find out if the name is dutch but no luck could you please tell me were to look next,thank you so much

Dear Ms. X: My husband's great grandfather Achilles De Meuleunaere was born in Belgium and his ancestry goes quite far back in that country.

The Belgium records are extraordinary. Using the microfilmed church records beginning with Achilles' birth in 1884, we were able to find his parents' names. From there we searched back, one person and one event at a time.

We found marriages, deaths and baptisms quite easily. Although the records are in various languages other than English, it is not too difficult to pick out a name - provided you are familiar with reading old handwriting!

Being diligent and carefully looking for each ancestor's church records as we searched back from Achilles, we were able to prove his lineage back to 1779. At some point we would like to research further but we simply ran out of time. We also researched the spousal lines with great success.

Some of the records are in Latin. Some are in French. Some are in Dutch. Some are in a language very similar to Dutch. It depends on the time period you are searching in and the location. So you must go slowly and not be discouraged by the changes in language as you search the records.

If you get back far enough to the time when the French occupied the country, you will see a change in how dates are recorded. From 1793-1805 the French Republican Calendar was in use. Believe me when I first encountered it in the church records in Belgium I was completely lost! But I was able to find a research guide which explained how the calendar worked and what each month name meant.

The twelve months of the French Republican calendar were based on the natural events of the seasons of the year. They don't correspond to the standard months of January through December so you must go slowly and be sure you understand when each event you find occured.

I suggest you begin at Belgium Roots then have a look at the online FamilySearch catalogue to see what records have been microfilmed for the location and time period you need.

Checking Online Data for Source Information & Instructions

2011-01-02T03:24:00.021-05:00

Donna asked about an online Naturalization Records database

I have been trying to find my GGG Grandfather who was John Reedy, or John Reddy b. 1848 in Ireland, d. 1927 in Phillipburg NJ. On your USA-Wide Naturalization Records INDEX TO DECLARATION OF INTENT 1827-1895 I can see a John Reedy and a Patrick Reddy, but I am not for sure how to order a copy of the document or even if I can order it

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE:

Hi Donna - I'm glad that you found the set of records I have online at http://naturalizationrecords.com/ However I have 15 volumes of name indexes for the set (INDEX TO DECLARATION OF INTENT 1827-1895 ) you refer to!

It would have been helpful to have a direct URL (that's the webpage address/URL starting with http:// ) so I could see the exact page where you found the information.

However, in answer to your question about how you go about ordering the full information - every page of my INDEX TO DECLARATION OF INTENT 1827-1895 has the instructions on how to do this.

For example if you go to "D" Surnames, Books 7 & 8 of this series you will see the title

INDEX TO DECLARATIONS OF INTENT 1827-1895

BOOKS 7 & 8 April 1843 - May 1850

and then --- the source! "Source: FHC Film 1301572 Items 1 & 2 "

Then there is more info and then, the golden information which starts with

"Lorine's Note: There are 7 reels of microfilm containing New York Declarations of Intent. The following is an index to those Declarations, with page numbers to help you find the original. To view the original Declarations of Intent, consult ....." followed by the exact film and item number you need to find the details.

Yes I'm going to make you go back to the website and find it for yourself. You need to return to the page where you saw your REDDY, REEDY names and read the instructions. Those instructions will tell you how to order the full record.

Every genealogist should be very careful to check for information as to how to use every database they search, whether the data is online or in book form. 99% of websites and books will provide full instructions as to where the data came from, and how to get more details if available.

Obtaining an American Passport Application after 1925

2011-01-01T11:42:00.000-05:00

Loretta asked about getting an American Passport application from 1952

How do I obtain a copy of the Passport Registrations for individuals who left the United States in 1952? I have the passport number. Is it possible to get a copy of the application?

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE:

Hi Loretta,

NARA has passport applications from October 1795-March 1925. The U. S. Department of State has passport applications from April 1925 to the present. Passports before 1925 have been filmed by NARA and LDS church as passport records, passport registers, and passport indexes

Please see the website NaturalizationRecords.com for details on how to send for passport information for the time period you need. Scroll down to WHERE TO FIND AMERICAN PASSPORTS after the page loads.

Deciphering Old Handwriting

2010-12-22T08:53:00.000-05:00

Jewish Gem wrote with several challenging questions. I'm answering one about deciphering handwriting today. There is a graphic which goes with the question

I am having difficulty reading Jennie's husband's name on Yetta Meyerson's birth certificate. Can you help me???

Dear Jewish Gem - I've taken the liberty of cropping and enlarging the name on the graphic you sent me. I have compared the letter formations of the name with other words on the same certificate.

My reading of this name is "Abraham" I am sorry I can't show you how I arrived at that, but I think you can clearly see the ending "aham" on the name.

What looks at first glance like 2 letters in front of "aham" is in reality 3 letters, rather scrunched together - those letters being "Abr"

Census Records Hold Many Clues!

2010-12-18T04:35:00.019-05:00

Over on the Olive Tree Genealogy Page on Facebook, Marilyn

asked about a challenge she has in her genealogy.

what do you do when all you have is first name and married last name.first name in 1880 census as on marriage licence in1866 my ggreatgrandmother was velinda/velinder (do not know maiden name ) married jacob b brown 1866.they are on 1880 census.with son charles andrew brown and emma .i lived next door to emma until she passed in 1954.came acro...ss a berry family tre with the names and dates correct.but 2 other children mary a and scoto born i 1860s.i am thinking she was married previous or my ggreatgrandfather was a father at 13.do not have a death or anything on her or first 2 children.the main names in the tree were jagodzinski poland and ill.had our dates of birth as jacob ohio/the rest indiana.

Hi Marilyn,

It doesn't sound like you have seen this family in any census other than 1880. The 1900 and 1910 give the number of children a woman has had and how many are living. This will help you figure out how many children your Verlinda had.

I noted that in both 1900 and 1910 she is listed as Malinda, so be sure to check for her under this name too. In 1900 she says she had 6 children with 5 living; in 1910 she says 7 children with 6 living. A little discrepancy you will have to try to resolve

If you search 1870 census you will find the children you spotted on that Berry Family Tree. Plus another child (10 year old Mary), no telling if it is hers, Jacobs (unlikely) or a niece or other relative!

By 1900 they have 3 more children listed.

So all in all 7 children if you don't count Mary, the 10 year old living with them in 1870

I would hunt for the marriage records of all those 7 children. Almost certainly their mother's maiden name will be given. Also hunt for their deaths and see what information is available there.

I'm going to go out on a limb though and suggest that this person may be your Verlinda - she is indexed on Ancestry.com as Malinda Anderson and is a 19 year old in the 1860 census for Hamilton, Jackson, Indiana. She has a 3 month old daughter named Mary Ann Anderson. A look at the image shows her first name to be Verlinda at least that is how I read it.

The little girl is the right age to be the 10 year old Mary A. "Brown" found living with Malinda/Verlinda and her husband Jacob Brown in 1870. We know Mary A. is not Jacob's daughter as he was 13 when she was born. Malinda is with Paul Anderson age 21.

It's a working theory, and that is how I approach challenges. Develop a theory, and then work to prove or disprove it. Try to find Paul and Malinda/Verlinda Anderson in 1870. If you find them, you've proven the theory wrong.

Keep going and keep gathering records, as many as you can, until you have sorted out all the players (ancestors and others not related)

I'll leave you to have some fun now!

Finding What You Want Online

2010-12-17T11:24:00.002-05:00

Sarah G. asked about my McGinnis Ancestors:

Where can I find your McGinnis material? I am a descendant of Edward's daughter Margaret, d 21 Oct 1843 in Limestone Co AL She m Stephen Brundidge,Washington

Dear Sarah,

It's always nice to hear from another McGinnis researcher - or any researcher looking for the same family names as I am! Here is a little tip for finding things on the 'net: go to Google and type in what you are looking for.

For example you wanted to see my McGinnis Family Tree. If you go to Google and type in my name (Lorine McGinnis Schulze) or the name of my website (Olive Tree Genealogy) followed by the words McGinnis Family, you will see the following (for me it was the first result displayed on the page, it may be in a different position for you)

You can then click on the link in Google to go directly to the page.

The link for my McGinnis family information is http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/can/ont/mcginnisfamily.shtml

The McGinnis Family of Puslinch Township, Wellington County Ontario - 13 visits - 6 Nov

Find ancestors on the family tree of The McGinnis & Bell & King Family of Puslinch Township, Wellington County Ontario.

www.olivetreegenealogy.com/can/ont/mcginnisfamily.shtml

FInding Relationship in a Complex Family

2010-12-15T08:23:00.000-05:00

Zubeida asked a relationship question. I admit that I thought the query was bogus and a prank but I'm answering it anyway! It does remind me of the song "I'm my own Grandpa..."

My mom had a son with her first husband which made him my step brother. My mother's brother (my auncle) had 2 daughters.... and they are my cousins as well as my step brother's cousin.

My father had 2 daughters with the 2 cousins (one by each of them), which made me also their sister. The one had a son and he wants to get married to my step brother's grandchild.

Are they related? If so, how? And are they allowed to get married?

Well Zubeida I had to enter all your family members into my FTM program to get the answer to this. First though let me correct you.

You state that your mother had a son by another husband (not your father). That makes the son your HALF-brother, not your step-brother as you stated.

A step relationship is one that has no blood ties. But you and this son share your mother as a common parent and thus you are related by blood.

Okay moving on - your HALF-brother's grandchild is the third cousin to the grandson of the daughter your father sired with your uncle's daughter. So the two people wishing to marry are third cousins.

Whether or not it is legal for them to marry depends on where they live. You would have to check into the law in that country.

Finding Information on a British Home Child

2010-12-09T09:37:00.000-05:00

Helen posed an interesting question about a British Home Child.

The Canadian Parliament designated 2010 as the Year of the British Home Children. Volunteers and descendants are making a special effort to alert people to this part of Canadian history, as well as discover the histories/relations of the children.

Charles Thomas BULPITT b. 1907 (parents Andrew Sidney BULPITT - Alice Emily SMITH) emigrated to Canada - age 16, August 4, 1923, on the ship S.S. Megantic, under the auspices of the Marchmont Home, Belleville. He was placed on the farm of J. Benson Cox near Goderich. This proved to be an abusive environment. Charles committed suicide Dec. 22, 1923, & is buried in the Colborne cemetery.

We have contacted Charles' niece in England who was not aware of his life in Canada. She has contacted Barnardo's for information but will not receive documents for another 8 months.

With your experience you probably know where to find facts re this boy's short life in Canada, where he is buried in Colborne, who paid for the headstone (picture found/sent by a BHC volunteer),community feelings, & other facts to complete a picture of Charles BULPITT's life. The material is all forwarded to the English relatives.

Dear Helen - Such a sad fate for a young teenage boy. I can tell you from personal experience researching a British Home Child that the Barnardo's files are very complete.

The files I received for my husband's ancestor Albert Finch contained summaries of letters exchanged between the Home and young Albert. These summaries gave a very good glimpse into Albert's life in Ontario. His first placement was not a happy one and he ran away. Full details were given for this event, and also what was done when the boy was found. His second placement was successful and he was treated very well there.

There were also sketchy details of the families Albert was placed with, and his determination to save enough money to bring his younger brother and sister to Canada to join him.

All in all a fascinating glimpse into a young orphan's life and plenty of detail to flesh out his first years in Ontario.

In the meantime, while you are waiting for the Barnardo records to arrive, here are some suggestions for further research:

I see that Charles was attended at the Brophy Funeral Home in Goderich Ontario. I would find out if they still exist and if so, write to them

Write to the Cemetery where Charles is buried and ask them to send you the information from his burial.

Write to the local church

Write to the Funeral Home

Write to Huron Co. Museum and see if they have any details

Is there a newspaper for that area and that time period? There may be some mention of young Charles and his suicide.

Digging Deep Sometimes Means Slowing Down

2010-12-01T04:42:00.019-05:00

A few days ago I wrote about disliking anonymous queries. I also posted an anonymous query because I thought the problem was probably something that many genealogists experience. So I broke the query into 4 "topics" and posted responses to all.

Well this morning I received an email from my anonymous researcher. She apologized for her oversight and gave me her name. Thank you Judy!!

In her email she went through each of my 4 points with her own comments and explanations. I really appreciate that as it's great to have ongoing discussion and really good to know that she is willing to dig deeper!

I want to post one of her comments and give another answer, as I think this will also help in her search.

Judy said:

Hi Judy, I'm not sure I'm understanding your response. Depending where you meant to put the period to show the end of your sentence, it can be read two ways. I'm going to assume you meant to put a period here:

In your last response you state that the 1842 census can be obtained [PERIOD HERE?) on ancestry.ca it states that that is not available.....

Yes I did say the 1842 census should be something you look at for your ancestors. BUT I directed you via a link to http://allcensusrecords.com/canada/1842census.shtml not to Ancestry.ca or Ancestry.com. Ancestry does not have that census online.

If you go to the link I gave you, you will see the note with information as to where you can obtain that 1842 census. It is not on Ancestry and must be consulted elswhere. The note on that 1842 page explains exactly how to obtain it.

This is another example of sometimes needing to dig deep and search OFFline as well as online.

I can tell you are really excited about your genealogy and want to find the answers fast, but I urge you to slow down just a bit. You've done a lot of work and I sense that you are chomping at the bit and want to do more but I think you might be missing things in your eagerness.

I'm going to re-read your last email carefully and see if there is any more direction or guidance I can offer you. Thank you for the feedback, I really appreciate that!

In your last response you state that the 1842 census can be obtained on ancestry.ca it states that that is not available.....

Genealogy Isn't Always Easy So Dig Deep!

2010-11-27T08:35:00.000-05:00

I dislike anonymous queries. Most often I don't respond to them. But this one caught my attention because I believe many genealogists are struggling with a similar problem.

So I've decided to respond to it. I'm going to break this query into 4 sections (questions) and respond to each in turn.

Q 1: .... I still can't find out when my GGGrandfather Robert Scott born 1804 in County Mayo Ireland died 9 Jan. 1893 in Chatham Ontario ,came to Ontario Canada lived in Norwich Oxford County where he had 10 children with his wife Ann Carroll .

ASK OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Dear anonymous, You are very lucky that your ancestor had 10 children. By tracing each of these children and finding their obituaries or death notices you may find evidence of when their father came to Ontario. When you are stuck it's a good idea to broaden your searches to other family members

Q 2: The James Allison records are just letters and orphens who came to Canada in the 1840's.

ASK OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Not sure how/where you got this idea but it's not correct.The James Allison Records cover the years 1823-1849. They are not just letters and orphans! James Allison was the emigrant agent at Montreal. His job was to see that destitute immigrants arriving in that city had food and transportation to their settlement areas (usually Upper Canada, which is now the province of Ontario)

The records include such items as lists of passengers on steamboats from Montreal to Upper Canada, provisioning lists of immigrants including such comments as "expecting to get to her husband in Merrickville"

Q 3: I have looked in your site and can't find anything. WHAT file would give me info on when these two Ann Carroll born 14 May 1815 in Ireland don't know where and died in Portage La Prairie Manitoba on 1 Jan. 1916 at the age of 101 years old . These two person have been a mystery to me as there is no info on them as to when they came to Ontario Canada & who they came with (siblings & parents) . I have them in census from 1851- 1910 but not before 1851 is there any info on persons of this time period.

ASK OLIVE TREE ANSWER: This is a challenging time period and you do not have a very narrow timeframe in which to search. Basically you are saying that between 1815 and 1851 (almost 40 years) is when they arrived in Ontario. You will need to narrow that down.

Regarding my site Olive Tree Genealogy, it requires reading what is there and clicking on various links that might take you to a database of interest.

For this early time period in Ontario you may have to search OFFline as well as ONline. Thus you may need to read the instructional information on my site in order to learn WHAT is available for this time period and WHERE to find it. Often we have to learn what is available before we jump in to searching frantically for an ancestor's name.

The fact that you misunderstood the scope of the James Allison records suggests to me that you skimmed over my site's pages far too quickly.

Q 4: Your help in directing me to the sites for immigration between 1800- 1831 would be gratefully apprectiated. already have checked out 18 sites

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: It's interesting that you have kept track of how many sites you have been to! I'm sorry to tell you that is not a lot of searching! It's a drop in the bucket when you consider how challenging a time period early Ontario records are, and how many different sites and physical repositories you will probably have to consult in your quest.

As for immigration between 1800 and 1831 I can definitely direct you, but I'm curious how you suddenly got down from that 1851 year to 1831?

In any case, if you visit Filling in The Gaps you will see a 2-column chart called "Finding Ancestors on Canadian Passenger Lists"

You want "Ships Passenger Lists Before 1865" on the left side. You must understand that there are *no* comprehensive ships passenger lists of immigrants arriving in Canada prior to 1865. Until that year, shipping companies were not required by the government to keep their passenger manifests.

What I have done is to list EVERY possible alternative source, such as Steamship Records, Emigration Agent records, Shipping Company Records and so on.

I cannot stress enough that at this time NO OTHER LISTS OR RESOURCES ARE KNOWN TO EXIST.

There may be others which have not yet been discovered - buried in a dusty basement of an Archive or in ledger books buried amongst other physical items. But the important point is that this list online has ALL AVAILABLE RESOURCES for Ships Passenger Lists to Canada before 1865 listed and linked to. A few are only found offline but most have been published online as special projects.

You can of course also consult land records for your ancestor as most settlers immediately bought land. Find out when he bought his (if he bought any) and that will narrow your time frame for immigration.

You can also consult early (pre 1851) tax and assessment records to find out when he was living in Upper Canada.

You appear to have overlooked the 1842 census which actually gives the number of years the person had been in the province. Look for your ancestor there.

AskOliveTree Tries to Help

2010-11-19T08:24:00.000-05:00

Jerry asked about an ancestor in Scotland but it seems he confused the AskOliveTree purpose with a lookup service. Here is Jerry's question:

Could you look for George Walker in Galashiels, Scotland Daughter Charlotte Berup Walker, age 5 in 1901 census. Owner of the Salmon Inn at one time in Galashiels?

Hello Jerry - I really enjoy helping genealogists overcome their challenges and brick walls. But AskOlive Tree blog doesn't provde a lookup service. I'm sorry that wasn't clear to you.

Sometimes a query intrigues me so much that I do have a little look for more information, but if you read through past questions and my responses, you will see that for the most part I offer help and direction and attempt to guide researchers to the right place for their needs.

Suggestions might be ideas for the researcher as to where to look next. They might include links to online records that will be just what the person needs.

For your query you need to consult the 1901 census. It's available on Ancestry.com and may be found on other websites too.

FInding WW2 Records for English Soldier

2010-11-16T07:37:00.000-05:00

This question about WW2 English records came from Hannah, age 14

Hello, me name is Hannah and I am 14 years old, I live in the UK. I am looking to find out, if possible, how my relative died or any more information about him, this is his record from the Commonwealth Grave Commissions website. Please please help, any more information would be greatly appriciated. Many thanks, Hannah

1TULLOCK , THOMAS PATTISONPrivate439286111/06/194427Green Howards (Yorkshire Regiment)United KingdomXI. K. 21.BAYEUX WAR CEMETERY

Hello Hannah - It's wonderful that you want to learn more about your relative.

To find out more about his death your best bet would be his service records from WW2. You can do this by going to Veterans UK and downloading the forms you need to fill out.

The following address should be used for family members wishing to access records of deceased soldiers

Army Personnel Centre,
Historical Disclosures,
Mail Point 555,
Kentigern House,
65 Brown Street,
Glasgow,
G2 8EX

I had a look online and found a bit more about Thomas. I hope this helps you in your search.

Source: UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
Name:Thomas Tullock
Given Initials:T P
Rank:Private
Death Date:11 Jun 1944
Number:4392861
Birth Place:Middlesborough
Residence:Middlesborough
Branch at Enlistment:Infantry
Theatre of War:Western Europe Campaign, 1944/45
Regiment at Death:Green Howards (Alexandra, Princess of Wales' Own Yorkshire Regiment)
Branch at Death:Infantry

and also this:

Initials: T P,
Nationality: United Kingdom,
Rank: Private,
Extra Info: Son Of John E. And Lily Tullock, Of Middlesbrough, Yorkshire.,
Regiment: Green Howards (Yorkshire Regiment), Unit Text: 6th Bn.,
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead,
Grave Reference: XI. K. 21.,
Cemetery: BAYEUX WAR CEMETERY

Also FindAGrave.com has an entry with a photo of the cemetery.

Pvt Thomas Pattison Tullock
Birth: unknown
Death: Jun. 11, 1944

Note: Private, Green Howards (Yorkshire Regiment). Age: 27.

Burial:Bayeux War Cemetery
Bayeux
Basse-Normandie Region, France
Plot: XI. K. 21.

Finding an Airline Passenger Manifest

2010-11-12T09:30:00.001-05:00

Herman asked about passenger manifests on airlines

I am trying to find out the airline, flight # or anything at all about our family's immigration to Canada in 1960. We flew from Amsterdam on sept. 22, 1960 and arrived in Montreal on sept. 23, 1960.

We think the airline was KLM but are not sure. If you have any information or leads on how to find this out, I would be very grateful.

Hello Herman - To the best of my knowledge, airline passenger manifests to Canada were not archived (saved) and thus no such manifest exists.

Dutch Age of Majority in New Netherland

2010-11-09T11:26:00.006-05:00

Barbara asked about the legal age in New Netherland (New York) when the Dutch first settled

The original Dutch Roman law gave the legal age as 25.But many people in New Netherland even without evident parental permission married around age 21, now the question is it feasible that a young man said to be born 1639 would be able to buy his own land in 1660 being about age 21---

----or is it more feasible (my believe) that if he is recorded buying land in 1660 he was closer to age 25, being born (a likely date for this young man named Gerrit Lubberts) around 1635.?

Hello Barbara - The Dutch age of majority was 21 so it is possible that your man was indeed purchasing land at that age. I certainly would not eliminate the possibility that he was anywhere from 21 and older.

The Oath of Allegiance Taken by Palatine Refugees in 1727

2010-11-08T12:30:00.000-05:00

Carl asked about the 1732 Oath of Allegiance that all Palatine males had to take on arrival in Pennsylvania.

Hello Carl, Great question! I don't know if the Oath was standardized (although I suspect it was) and I also don't know how/if it changed over the years! But here is one Oath that Palatine males over the age of 16 had to swear to on their arrival in 1727

" We subscribers, natives and late inhabitants of the Palatinate upon the Rhine and places adjacent, having transported ourselves and families into this Province of Pennsylvania, a colony subject to the crown of Great Britain, in hopes and expectation of finding a retreat and peaceable settlement therein, Do solemnly promise and engage... " Continue reading the Oath

I would like to know exactly what the Oath of Allegiance said that all the Palatines agreed to when they off-loaded at Philadelphia on October 17 or 19, 1732.

Don't Overlook FamilySearch Genealogy Records online

2010-11-06T09:15:00.000-04:00

I don't usually accept anonymous queries. I figure if you want me to help, you should tell me your name. But... I broke my rule with this one only because it was easy to answer and it might help others.

An anonymous reader asked

Frederick Martin born 1912 in Cleveland Ohio to Earnest and Gertrude Martin. I cannot find anything in the state of Ohio that indicates when he died. I was told that he froze to death after an Aunt put him out in the dead of winter. The most recent story I heard was he was put out in Dayton Oh and was walking back to Cleveland. I have no idea of how old he was when this happened. He was never married and never served in military. He does show up on the 1920/1930 census. Nothing after that. All siblings are deceased so there is nobody to ask. Where do I go from here.

Ask Olive Tree answer: Dear Anonymous - I would have spent more time on this if you'd signed your email. But here is my quick answer for you:

https://beta.familysearch.org/ has Ohio deaths

Finding a Ships Passsenger List to California in 1935

2010-11-05T08:29:00.000-04:00

Joan asked about a ships passenger list from New Jersey to California in 1935:

Can you suggest where I might be able to find a passenger list in 1935 ... sometime from the date my Grandmother died (28 Jan, 1935) ... through July.

I'm looking for my Grandfather, Ernest C. Hinck. He traveled from California to NJ in February (probably by train with my Grandmother's body). On the return trip by boat, he met a woman whom he subsequently married in July 1935. It was a short marriage since he died in May of 1936.

My sister and I are trying to confirm a family story about this woman.

Hello

If I understand your query correctly, you are looking for a ships passenger list for a voyage from New Jersey to California ca 1935.

As far as I know, it was not a requirement to keep lists of ship travel within the USA, meaning from one state to another. However, to be certain, I suggest you go to TheGenealogySpot to find out exactly what passenger lists NARA holds for California arrival ports

Another place to try is the list of sites with passenger lists arriving in California.

Finding a Marriage Record in Quebec early 1800s

2010-11-03T15:50:00.001-04:00

Leslie asked about Quebec Marriage Records

My GG grandparents, Charles Church and Adelia Sweet, were supposedly married in Quebec. They were born around 1800. Adelia's obit says Vermont and I am not sure if Charles was born in Vermont or the Brome area of Quebec. They ended up in Huron Co., Ontario. I have also seen Adelia's named spelled Delia on a census and Adelaide.

Charles may be the son of Nathaniel Church and Calista Wells who had three sons named Charles, Nathaniel and Dudley.These three Church names show up in Huron County in the early 1840s. A book about the Wells family states one of the brothers was in this area.

I am trying to find proof of Charles' and Adelia's parents. I was hoping to find proof of a marriage and maybe their parents names. Do you have any other suggestions? I have pretty much exhausted all of the resources that I have been able to find.

Hi Leslie - First, thank you for such a well written query. You gave me names, dates and locations and summed up your challenging question very well. I appreciate that!

My first thought is that you may want to check Quebec church records. Do you know what religion Charles and Adelia were?

Sources in Quebec can be divided into three categories:

1608-1763: French Regime. Certain books include Detroit and other French forts that are outside the present borders of Quebec.

1763-1901: British Regime. Vital statistics are preserved at the Archives Nationales du Québec.

1900-today: This period covers the vital statistics that are not archived.

So you will want to start with the Archives Nationales du Quebec. Most original records for the Province of Quebec before 1900 are at the nine branches of the Archives Nationales du Quebec. Although microfilm copies of some records are held by all branches, there is no one central repository. Each specializes in a region, and regional boundaries do not match county boundaries exactly.
There is a bit more information and links to online sites at the Quebec section of OliveTreeGenealogy so you may want to have a quick look there.

Finding Ships Passenger Lists 1870s

2010-10-24T14:41:00.000-04:00

Brett asked about an immigration record circa 1872 to USA.

im looking for immigration records for one of my relatives. Iver Frank Olson was born June 1850 in Norway and emigrated to Chicago Illinois in 1872. i would like to find these records as it may say his 3 siblings on there. i think he came across alone as his dad died in 1854 and his mom in 1871. any help would be greatly appreciated!

Hi Brett - The fastest easiest way for you to find Iver is to search the complete ships passenger lists on Ancestry.com. Even if he came in via a Canadian port, you should be able to find him since they also have Canadian records after 1865.

There are other free sites where you can have a hunt for a passenger, but no one has the complete passenger lists except Ancestry.com.

Be creative in your search and use the wildcard feature to search for names such as ive* ols*n, iv*r *ls*n and so on. That will pick up mis-spellings and variations in the name

Here are some free websites you might want to start with:

Olive Tree Genealogy Ships Passenger Lists

The Ships List

Immigrant Ships Transcribers Guild

Why Abstract Indexes to Deeds Sometimes Have Blank Pages

2010-10-21T11:06:00.002-04:00

A reader who remained anonymous posted a comment on my blog post Abstract Index to Deeds: An Explanation

Dear Anonymous - I think I can explain but welcome other readers who have more knowledge of this complicated process to offer their comments.

I took your advice and secured a FHC film to research my Humberstone twp family. I was so disappointed to find the page blank - (correct concession #, lot #, county, etc.) In fact the next page was also blank, and the following page had one entry regarding a Sheriff's sale of 4 acres. Can you explain?

The Abstract Indexes are indexes to land transactions that took place after a patent was granted on a specific piece of land, and which were registered at the County Land Registry Office. Sadly not all transactions in the early part of the 1800s were registered. As well if an individual leased rather than owned their land, it might not be found because only leases longer than 21 years had to be registered.

Your question is an excellent one and I hope readers who have more knowledge of the early Ontario Land Records will jump in and either confirm what I've told you or offer their own explanation.

Ships Passenger Lists - How Many Per Voyage?

2010-10-19T09:59:00.000-04:00

Richard asked about finding ships manifests for a ship which his ancestor was supposedly on.

I need help finding a manifest from the port of disembarkation because my great great grandfather's name is not on the one for the port of arrival. The ship arrived in New York from England in 1854. How do I find that manifest taken when the ship left England?

Perhaps your ancestor travelled on a different ship, or on that ship but on a different voyage.

Ask Olive Tree Response: Hi Richard - Unfortunately for your needs, there is only one manifest taken for a ship. It is made at the port of departure and turned in at the port of arrival.

Looking for a Palatine Ancestor

2010-10-18T07:56:00.000-04:00

Barry asked about Palatine ancestors:

Ask Olive Tree response: Barry - As far as I know, the only lists that have survived have been published in Pennsylvania German Pioneers by Ralph B. Strassburger and William J. Hinke, published in 1934 by the Pennsylvania German Society, Norristown, Pennsylvania

This publication gives all available lists for each ship - the Captain's list, the list of signers of the Oaths of Allegiance and a third list which is supposedly a duplicate of the signers of the Oath but really isn't. It is signatures of those who signed a *different* oath.

To quote from the Strassburger book

"The order relating to the duty of the captains had three points. First, they were to make a list of all the people they imported. .... Not even the first point, that they should hand in lists of the names of the people they imported, was interpreted alike by all the captains. Most of them thought that to give the names of the male adults was all that was required. Only twenty-five captains have given complete lists of all the men, women and children. Three captains have given the names of the men and women, but omitted the children, while sixty-four captains atoned somewhat for their remissness in carrying out the orders by giving the ages of the passengers, an item that they had not been asked to give, but which we are glad to insert, wherever they are found. Sometimes the captains give the total number of freights, children being
counted as "half freights." In two instances (Nos. 1-2) the totals in each family are given. Looking at the captains' lists as a whole, we must say, that they are of all sorts and descriptions. Each one made his list to suit himself, without any reference to the orders of the Council. "

The list of all known ships plus the names of passengers and oaths taken, can be found at Palatine Ships Passenger Lists

Also see Palatine Denizations (Naturalizations) for 1708

Does anyone know of the location of information on the
alleged passports, or embarkation lists, that were
supposed to have been made by the masters of the early
Palatine ships and others of that time. Do you know
where the early English records are and/of if they are
available... they would been made at Cowes at the time of
Oath Saying?

Finding an Early Ancestor to the New World

2010-10-16T09:57:00.016-04:00

Carol asked about an early ancestor to the New World:

I have trouble in spelling surname on ships. my name now is GARRISON, Garret Jansen von Oldenburg was my ancestor. He came to New York in the 1600s. what spelling should I use in tracing him on the ships.

Ask Olive Tree Response: Carol that's a great question. It can be very confusing for researchers trying to find an early Dutch ancestor.

It depends whether or not your Garret used his patronymic of Jansen (with variant spellings), or an established surname, or some other identifying name.

You will have to search all variations or possible names, or
start browsing through each ships passenger list in the years you think he came over. Remember too that passenger lists as we know them did not exist for those early Dutch ships. All we have are the lists of who owed for their voyage, not the list of those who paid before sailing.

Also, remember that if he was Dutch he didn't use "von", he was a "van". "von" is German. Even if he was German, the Dutch may have applied "van" to indicate where he came from. Van Oldenburg might be his 'surname' or it might be a location name.

Using search engines when looking for these early Dutch lines is challenging as the names can vary so much in spelling and even in what name was used by the individual.

For example you write his name as Garret but you must try Gerret and Gerrit and Gerritt. For his patronymic of Jansen, try Jansz, Janse and even Janszen.

Creative Searching is a Must for Finding More on Early Ancestors!

2010-10-14T17:45:00.000-04:00

Cindy asked about an ancestor born in 1808. Ask Olive Tree Response: Hi Cindy. There are several alternate resources you might want to try to find to discover who your ancestor's parents were.

My brickwall is my great-great-grandmother Mary Harriet Jackson born on 8-22-1808 in Greenville, South Carolina. To continue with my family tree I need the name of at least her father. I have all kinds of information about her after she married my great-great-grandfather Daniel Ballew. Her childrens births and deaths , where she lived in North Georgia and even the fact that she died in 1885 and is buried not one mile from where I live. How does a person find information on someone born before they were listed on the census. I believe hers would be 1810. I know about checking church records and the Historical Society but all ot these things have not panned out. My best bet is the 1810 census and the finding of her father. I have tried matching male Jackson names to hers and have gotten 0 infromation. Any help would be appreciated.

1. Look for her obituary

2. Look for her children's obituaries. Any one might mention their grandparents

3. Look for a marriage record - often parents' names are included

4. Look for other Jackson individuals near her in census records after she was married. They may be relatives

5. Carefully note her children's names. Compare them to the names of her husband's parents. Did she follow a naming pattern by naming any children after her in-laws? If so she may very well have given names in honour of her own parents. Did she use a surname as a middle name for any of her children? That surname might be her own mother's maiden name.

6. Since you have an exact date of birth for your ancestor, you must have a source. Was it a church record? That will have her parents' names. Was it a family bible? If you can find her birth or baptism you will find her parents' names

Finding out what P.L.A. means on a Canadian Census Record

2010-10-12T09:56:00.000-04:00

Catherine asked a very good question on one of the mailing lists I administer. I thought it would be helpful to other genealogists to see the answer given by J. Brian Gilchrist to her question, so am publishing it here.

Catherine asked about someone committed to the Kingston Insane Asylum (Rockwood) in 1855. Under "Previous place of abode" was "Lennox & Addington, P.L.A. Toronto". She wanted to know what P.L.A. stood for.

Brian's response was that P.L.A. stood for "Provincial Lunatic Asylum" So if anyone else finds this abbreviation on a Canadian Census record, you now know what it means.

Understanding the CLRI and its Value in Finding an Ancestor's Land Records

2010-10-03T14:16:00.000-04:00

Holly asked about land records for an early Upper Canada (Ontario) ancestor:

Calvin Wheeler b circa 1789/90 US is the ancestor who had land. What I know is; supposedly c 1812 he left Vermont/NY to Canada and first settled in Strathcona, and had a farm there-I have nothing to substantiate this. He married ELIZABETH CARSCALLEN UEL c 1810/12 in this or the Fredericksburg area- Lennox and Addington County-was there for awhile. He then went into Sheffield Twp L & A Co. c1820 and at some point 'acquired' abt 300/400a in what is now Tamworth, L & A County. Supposedly the town/area was originally called- Wheeler's Mills.

The first known child to be baptized in Fredericksburg was in 1819 Found:in Upper Canada Land Petitions (1763-1865) - Elizabeth Carscallen. Elizabeth's first 'petition' is dated in 1817, there are two. Her whole family siblings, father are listed in the petition list and are found residing in the Fredericksburg area- L & A. They still had children being born in Camden L&A by 1826. Last child born 1828 but I don't know the location.

Looking for: Calvin Wheeler re: land. (never have found his parents/birth place either!)

Ask Olive Tree Response: Holly, you've got some good information so I had a look in the CLRI (Ontario Land Record Index) on your behalf. If Calvin filed a petition for land, it should be noted there. Sometimes Petitions are not found in the Upper Canada Land Petitions index but mention of them can be found elsewhere (CLRI or Land Books for example)

The headings (fields) in the CLRI are:

Surname; First Names; Residence; Location; Lot; Conc.; Date ID ;Issued; Date ID; Issued; Trans. Type; FG Type; Type Sale /Lease; Archives RG Series; Reference Volume Page

Here is the entry I found:
Calvin; Wheeler; Murray; Murray; FR 1/2 28; 1; 8; 1816-05-25; FG; M; 01 C13; 123 027

I'll translate for you: Calvin Wheeler living in Murray received a Free Grant of land in right of his Militia claim, on 25 May 1815 by Order in Council. His land was in Murray, the front half of lot 28 Concession 1. The Archival Reference is 01 C13 and it is on Vol. 123 page 027.

This record appears in Record Group 1 (Crown Land Records), Series C-I-3 (Fiats and Warrants), Vol. 123 (Register for Military Fiats), Page 27, which has been microfilmed on MS 693, Reel 138.

There should be a petition on file which was heard in Council. No doubt his Military service was during the War of 1812 so you might find more in War of 1812 records (although they are sparse). The microfilmed fiat and warrant mentioned above will give the petitioner's rank and regiment.

I'd also check Township papers for that lot and concession number, just in case there is something of note there. While I cannot be sure that the entry I found is for *your* Calvin, I urge you to look further, and check the Abstract Indexes to Deeds for the specific land location entered.

Searching for Ships Passenger List leads to Passport Records

2010-09-29T12:33:00.000-04:00

Jane asked about a ships passenger list for an ancestor but her question led to some interesting details in passport applications:

Found naturalization papers for my grandfather, Harry Belmont (b 1868), indicating he came to New York in 1880 aboard the ship Earnwell orErnwell from the port of Marseille. Can find no record of this ship arriving. Ancestry.com does have the ship listing with a few dates, but not 1880.

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: Hi Jane

You have to be cautious with immigration years. They are
very often misremembered. When your grandfather naturalized,
it was not required that there be a check (verification) of
the dates he gave. So he could be in error.

See http://naturalizationrecords.com/usa/ for more info on
naturalization records in the USA

I did a little looking for you and found some interesting data. If I have the right Harry Belmont, in one census year he claims to have immigrated in 1883 so you can see how the years can differ. in the census he says he is a waiter, born France.

Your grandfather also applied for Emergency passports in
both 1892 and 1897. These are found on Ancestry.com

On 6 May 1892 he stated that he was currently living in Vienna and needed a passport. He further states he arrived from Marseilles in Ny in 1880 (no name of ship given) and lived for 10 years in NY. He says he was naturalized 5 Sept 1890 in NY and that he left the USA on 6 Feb 1891 on board the Earnwell (?) and landed in Marseilles 17 April 1891. So here we have evidence that the ship was leaving New York for Marseilles, not the other way around, UNLESS he happened to sail on the same ship first time over to USA.

I say first time bcause he goes on to say that he lived in France and Russia since Apr 17 /91 and is currently in Vienna but intends to return to USA within 2 years to take up permanent residence

There is more, you should access this to see the whole document (it's on Ancestry.com ). It gives a precise place of birth, his occupation (steward) and a physical description

He applied again on 14 Sept 1897 stating he is living temporarily in Vienna. It is basically the same immigration info - again, there is no ship name, just arriving in NY in 1880. He references his leaving NY on the Earnwill/Ernwell in 1891 landing in Marseilles in April that year. Now he says he is a clerk. You can access the complete document on Ancestry.com

I hope this helps a bit, I am not convinced he arrived in 1880 on the Ship Earnwell or Ernwill, so if I were you I'd search under his name for any ship arriving that year (and perhaps a year on either side)

Question About the Upper Canada Land Petitions

2010-09-28T08:32:00.000-04:00

Jill left a new comment on my blog post *NEW* Upper Canada Land Petitions Index available online and it contains a very good question so I"m going to answer it here

This is very exciting. I've had a look through the index and cannot find my ancestor who received land by Crown Patent in 1792 (I have a copy of the patent; there's not a lot of information there).

I might not understand the process, but I thought there had to be a petition before a patent was granted. Is that not correct? Any suggestions why a patent exists but a petition doesn't?

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: Jill, great question. It can be rather confusing as one would think that a petition *had* to be submitted before a patent was granted. But that was not always the case. Your ancestor might not have submitted a petition OR he might have submitted one but it has not survived.

Procedures for granting Crown Land changed constantly but could involve:

* The settler's initial Petition to the Crown for land

* An Order-in-Council from a federal Land Board granting their request

* A Warrant from Ontario's Attorney General ordering the surveying of a lot

* The Fiat from Ontario Surveyor General authorizing a grant of the surveyed lot

* A Location Ticket permitting the settler to reside on the lot

* The Patent transferring ownership of the lot from the Crown to the settler.

If you cannot find your ancestor in the Land Petitions, you may find his or her name in the Land Books. Upper Canada Land Books do not usually contain much more information than the names of petioners for land but at the least you will know if a petition existed at one time. Sometimes you will be lucky and find more detail in the comments section of the Land Book reference, but not often.

Be careful to check variant spellings in the Index to Upper Canada Land Petitions. Now that the index is online, you can use wildcards to be sure you're getting all variations.

Finding an Upper Canada (Ontario) Marriage Bond Before 1867

2010-09-25T13:52:00.001-04:00

Walter asked about Protestant marriages in Ontario in the early 1860s.

My ancestor married in Ontario around 1861. How can I find his marriage when there aren't any Marriage Registrations online before 1869? They were Protestant.

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: Hi Walter - That's a challenge. It can be difficult to find a marriage that took place in a Protestant church in Quebec (Lower Canada) or Ontario (Upper Canada) before 1867.

Marriage bonds were prepared for Protestant marriages by licence. After obtaining the bond, a licence was issued and the marriage took place a few days later. The good news is that Library and Archives Canada holds the following:

* 2960 marriage bonds for Lower Canada (Quebec) issued between 1779 and 1858

* 7899 marriage bonds for Upper Canada (Ontario) issued between 1803 and 1865

A typical bond has the following information:

* Name of the future husband
* Name of the future wife
* Their place of residence
* Names of the sureties (people who knew the groom and would
guarantee that no legal reasons existed why the couple could not marry)
* Date and place where the bond was issued

These bonds are freely available online at Library & Archives Canada

It's all in the Name!

2010-09-22T14:54:00.000-04:00

Bill asked about a ship's name:

I have an ancestor of the American Virginia Colony late 17th early 18th Century who was co-owner of a ship noted as "Loyall Judith" of London - sometimes mentioned as "Pink Loyal Judith." Why is the ship referred to with two different names?

Ask Olive Tree Responds: A "pink" is a type of ship. The pink Loyal Judith just means the Loyal Judith was a pink - which is a small ship with a narrow stern.

So the ship's name was LOYAL JUDITH and she was a pink (type of vessel, not name of ship)

Finding More Details on a Canadian WW1 Military Ancestor

2010-09-21T14:31:00.001-04:00

John asked about Canadian Military records:

I'm looking for information on how to determine where my Great Uncle fought in the 1st World War. His Attestation papers for Canadian Over-seas Expeditionary Force state that he was part of the 1st Battallion C.O.B., C.E.F.for 8 weeks then transferred to R.C.R. for 4 months as listed under "former Naval or Military service". I have his regimental number . Where do I go from here to get more information on where he fought and what he did? Do these records exist? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: Hi Jim - what you have is just a small part of the whole file. The attestation papers are only the front and back of the man's signup sheet.

You want to order the full record from LAC (Library & Archives Canada). Just go to
the site and read how to order them, or go to The Canadian Military Heritage Project and click on FIND YOUR MILITARY ANCESTOR

The full file will give his movements on specific dates and often much more. There is no consistency though. You may get one page of information or you may get dozens. It depends what has survived.

Was Your Ancestor a Loyalist?

2010-09-20T12:24:00.000-04:00

Diane asked a question about possible Loyalist ancestors

James Wheeler, born in Upper Canada c.1782. He married Mary Slingerland (Daughter of Richard and Elizabeth Slingerland) born c. 1790, bapt. 24 Apr 1803. On 28 Jun 1820, Mary Wheeler of Charlotteville Twp., Norfolk Co. received an Order in Council for a grant of 200 acres of land as the daughter of Richard Slingerland, UE. In 1822, they lived at Grantham Twp., Lincoln Co. In 1844, they lived at Rainham Twp., Haldimand Co. then returned to Norfolk County and settled on Lot 12, Concession 2, Walsingham Twp., northwest of Port Rowan. In the 1852 Census of Walsingham Twp. p.7 , James Wheeler was listed aged 74 with his wife Mary 60, and son Isaac 20. All were born in Upper Canada, Wesleyan Methodist. This information is from Robert Mutrie of A Long Point Settlers Genealogy.

We are trying to find out who James Wheeler's parents were. It says that Richard's father was reported born in France (sic) and his mother in Canada. It says in this information though, that James Wheeler, was born in Upper Canada. Whether the France means New France in Quebec, we do not know.

Someone suggested and I saw a list, that a Samuel Wheeler could possibly be James father, as their names were both listed together as being in the Butler's Rangers of the British Infantry. But I don't know if that is so or not. Is there any help you can give me in this?

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: Dear Diane - Let's tackle the question of your James being a Loyalist. With a birth year of circa 1782 he was not old enough to be one. The American Revolution ended in 1783 when he was one year old.

Second problem - James does not appear on any lists of Butler's Rangers that I have found. I have 3 ancestors who fought in Butler's Rangers and was able to have a look on your behalf in my resources.

I checked "Early Settlers in Niagara including the First "Census" 1782,1783, 1784, 1786, 1787" published in 1992 by the Niagara Peninsula Branch of the OGS. This is basically a list of disbanded Butler's Rangers, their units, the victualling lists (for rations to the men and their families) and other assorted census substitutes. There is *no* James Wheeler or Weeler listed. There is a Samuel Wheeler on a list of those disbanded rangers receiving rations and willing to settle on Crown Lands at Niagara. The date is 20 July 1784 and he is alone - no wife, no children. He received 1 ration for one person daily.

He appears on a second list as Samuel Weeler as being in Cpt Lewis Genevay's Co. of the Corps of Rangers (Butler's) dated 30 Nov. 1783 - no family of any kind listed with him.

I checked the Old UEL List (there is a James Wheeler listed there but he was a Treasury Loyalist who settled in New Brunswick) Samuel Wheeler is on the Old UEL list and it is noted he was a soldier in the Kings Rangers.

Samuel does not appear in Reid's book "The Loyalists in Ontario: The Sons & Daughters of the American Loyalists...." but don't be misled! Reid's book on Loyalists was never intended to be the Bible of Loyalist families. Reid simply organized index cards into what he thought were family groups. *Many* if not most families are incomplete. Some individuals are incorrectly placed.

Reid's book is a wonderful resource, and a great starting point for your Loyalist research, but you should verify independently that a child he places in a family group does belong there (by looking up ALL petitions for that family),and never never assume that because an individual isn't in the family group he/she doesn't exist or isn't a Loyalist.

No one list of Loyalists can be considered "the" List. There is no simple definitive and accurate list. You must consult them all, from the Old UEL list to Reid's book to all the variant lists made.

After 1796 the Executive Council kept a list of Loyalists based on District Rolls. This became the Executive Council UE List and contains about 3,500 names. It is not considered a complete list, but it is considered more accurate than the Crown Lands (Old UEL) list.

The Crown Lands Dept. created a second list, based on other records. This became the Old UEL List and contains approximately 6,000 names, but not all qualified.

When searching Loyalists you also need to consult pay lists, muster rolls, and the land records. For a good reference to what is
available, see Brenda Dougall Merriman's book Genealogy in Ontario: Searching the records Look under Brenda's chapter on Loyalists.

You would be wise to consult the Upper Canada Land Petitions (UCLP) because Loyalists and their families petitioned in order to receive their allowed land grants. One thing that isvery important is to recognize that the Petitions of Loyalists for land are not uniform. You may find one small petition, giving just enough facts to
persuade the Crown to give that person a free grant as a Loyalist. You may find page after page of affidavits,testimonies, and so on, all documentation to prove the petitioner's claim.

Also see this article on steps to take researching a Loyalist

So the bottom line is that your James could not be a Loyalist but he could have been the son of Loyalist. However Samuel Wheeler in Butler's Rangers does not appear to have been married or have children. Having said that my recommendation is that you start from scratch. Begin with James. Note every fact and every source.

Search the sources you have not yet looked at. Don't jump to conclusions that Man A might be his father unless you have some solid evidence to support that theory. Don't rely on others checking sources and giving you information unless they copy it accurately from the resource and provide the full source notation.

Once someone paraphrases what is found, there is tremendous opportunity for error. Sometimes other researchers, trying to be helpful, will give you their interpretation of a record, not the exact wording. That can be very wrong and lead you down an incorrect path.

Be prepared to find out that your James wasn't the son of a Loyalist. If he was, he should have filed a petition for his land claim (a free grant). But keep searching all the records so that you can eliminate possibilities and correct any errors you might have in your previous research

Answering a Question about the Van Slyke Family and their Mohawk Heritage

2010-09-17T11:38:00.000-04:00

Diane asked three very interesting questions. I'm going to respond to them all, one at a time. The first one involves our shared ancestor Cornelis Antonissen Van Slyke and his Mohawk wife Ots-Toch.

Am also interested in Och-Toch, the Mohawk wife of Antonissen Van Slyke 1604-1676. I know her father is Jacques Hertel 1603-1651 but was wondering, if any information was ever found on Och-Toch's mother, her grandparents on the Mohawk side?

Diane - I loved reading your questions and am going to spend some time working on your first two about Loyalists. I've chosen your third question to answer because it's about my ancestors too - Cornelis Antonissen Van Slyke (you mistakenly called him "Antonissen") and his Mohawk wife Ots-Toch.

Cornelis Van Slyke's story which is fully documented is of a Dutchman who came to the New World as a carpenter at the age of 30, who became an interpreter for the Mohawk nation,was adopted into the tribe, and who met and married a French-Mohawk woman who never left her native village. Their children, all raised at Canajoharie, one of the Mohawk castles or villages, became well-known and respected in the Dutch community. All except one left the village and married Dutch settlers.

I am going to assume that you don't know about my books on the Van Slyke family. My most recent is The Van Slyke Family in America: A Genealogy of Cornelise Antonissen Van Slyke, 1604-1676 and his Mohawk Wife Ots-Toch, including the story of Jacques Hertel, 1603-1651, Father of Ots-Toch and Interpreter to Samuel de Champlain REVISED EDITION published May 2010. Coil bound 8.5x11. 287 p. ISBN: 978-0-9680744-5-9 Here is a link to an Order Form or Paypal Orders

It will answer all your questions! It's 287 pages are chock full of detail on Jacques Hertel, Cornelis Van Slyke, Ots-Toch and their descendants.

I stress in my book that we do not know with 100% certainty that Cornelis' wife used the name Ots-Toch but it has passed on down via family lore and fairly early writings that this was her name. Nothing is known of her maternal side, although there is some supposition that her mother's father may be known. I am not convinced so do not wish to suggest this theory.

Don't Let Research Flaws Multiply!

2010-09-14T02:44:00.070-04:00

Carrol asked an intriguing question about her great-grandmother from Ireland to Boston and on to Ontario Canada in 1847. My interest was piqued so I decided to do some research on her behalf. That led me down some very interesting paths and sadly (for Carrol), the conclusion that her original research is flawed!

Having errors creep into our genealogy research is not unusual. It's not always easy to keep on an accurate path in the excitement (and desperation) of the search for ancestors.

Carrol, let me show you what I found versus what you presented to me below. I'm going to go step by step through your email and insert my comments, sources and details.

I'm trying to find any information on my great grandmother, Ann Whelan. Apparently from Cork.

She came to Canada in 1849, according to the 1901 Census.

Ask Olive Tree: Carrol, the year of immigration is the most MIS-remembered of all years, so be cautious taking one source (the 1901 census) and using the immigration year as set in stone. Always allow a few years on either side, and better still, try to find another source which provides an immigration date.

I have a FTM disk listing passengers from Ireland. There is an Ann Whelan from Cork arriving at the port of Boston in 1847. She is 14 yrs. of age (which corresponds with previously found information) & is accompanied by her brother, Thomas Whelan. At least I assume Thomas is her brother. Ann is a spinster, Thomas a bachelor. This ships list is for the Brig Mary. On OliveTree ships list for this ship & date there is no Ann or Thomas Whelan listed.

Ask Olive Tree: Carrol where do I start? You sent me to my Ships Passenger Lists on my Olive Tree Genealogy site http://olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/

I don't see a passenger list for a ship MARY from Ireland to Boston in 1847 on my site. I do have a list for a ship called CATHERINE MARY sailing from Bermuda to Boston in 1847, but no other lists to Boston that year.

Next problem - your statement that Thomas and Ann are travelling *together* on *the Brig Mary Ann* and that Ann is *from Cork* (or are saying that the ship sailed from Cork??)

Those statements are all incorrect. I first checked FTM's CD #256 "Passenger and Immigration Lists Boston 1821-1850" because to help researchers I need to be able to DUPLICATE their findings! In other words I need to find what they found so I can see if there are clues that might have been missed.

What I found was that the index shows an Ann WHALAN (note the spelling. A little friendly tip is to quote your source exactly as recorded, as this helps the person you are writing to), age 14 arriving in Boston 24 May 1847.

No ship name is given but the orginal source microfilm is noted as M277 Roll 22. This is the correct film for those Boston Passenger Lists. So far so good except remember that NO SHIP'S NAME is given. A Thomas WHALAN is also noted (as you mentioned) but again - no ships name is given.

I next went to Ancestry.com Boston Ships Passenger Lists via Steve Morse's One Step Search Engine. I found Ann, and also Thomas listed in the online index search. Both arrived in Boston on 24 May 1847. But they were NOT on the same ship!

14 year old Ann Whalan is noted as sailing on the ship OMEGA (not Brig Mary !) Her place of origin is Ireland. She is not travelling with Thomas WHALAN. 17 year old Thomas is sailing on MINSTREL. Both ships left Liverpool (not Cork) and sailed to Boston. Thomas is listed as being of English origin, not Irish.

So your assumption that they are brother and sister may be correct, but it's not looking very likely. Your statement that they were on board the same ship (the Brig Mary) is not correct.

There *was* a ship Mary that sailed to Boston from Cork Ireland but it arrived May 17, 1847 and was refused entry so sailed on to Halifax Nova Scotia.

In 1856 Ann Whelan is at Clarence Creek, Ontario where she is married to my ggrandfather, Jean Baptiste (John) Payie (Payé, Paille, Payet, Payette, etc.!!). In September of that year she has given birth to her first child, under the name Payette. I know nothing else about Ann except that she undoubtedly was one of the Famine Irish.

Ask Olive Tree: Another gentle piece of advice - please give locations in full when asking for help. I have no idea where Clarence Creek is so I had to scramble around to find it.

On the 1901 Census for Nipissing there is a Thomas Whelan listed along with his two sons, Stephen & James. Their names have been scratched off with the notation "they had already left the area"

Ask Olive Tree: You sent me scrambling again. Ancestry.com does not have these three names. I used wildcards. I used date of birth only for Thomas. I tried every trick I could think of and nothing.

So I went to http://automatedgenealogy.com/ and found them. But here is the interesting part - and I must add that I consulted the actual image of the census page - there are no ages given for Thomas, James or Stephen. There are no locations of birth. So how can you (and why would you?) assume that Thomas is the father?

It might be more likely to theorize that they are three brothers, possibly the sons I found for a Thomas Whelan and wife Sarah living in Admaston, Renfrew Ontario. (found in 1871 and 1881 census) The point is that we do not know their relationship to each other!

Also, several names are crossed out before getting to the Payette individual. The notation does not read "they had already left the area" A check of the image shows it to read " Left before the arrival of [illegible]"

Am I being too nit-picky? NO! Please read my blog post called "The Importance of Being a Copy-Cat" which is about copying original records EXACTLY as we see them, not as we interpret them, not as we want them to read but as they were written. It's important to realize that this notation might mean that the 3 men (and note it refers to all 3, not just Stephen and James) simply were not home when the census taker came around. It might also mean that they had moved away. We don't know the meaning, and thus it is important to copy it accurately.

Along with this Thomas Whelan & his 2 sons, is James Payette, a Shanty Man. There is no question that this James Payette is my great uncle, the son of Ann Whelan & John Pay(ie).

Ask Olive Tree: The Census image does not show "James Payette" as you stated. It reads "William J. Payette" He states he was born Dec 22, 1860, and is married. I have no way of knowing if this is your great-uncle. But it would have been helpful to have known this was the name on that 1901 census. No wonder I could not find him on Ancestry.com when I tried to duplicate what you had found.

The name James strikes me as being a "family" given name for the family of Ann. My reasoning being that all the other children of Ann & John appear to have French names.

Ask Olive Tree: I wondered what you meant by "French names" so I had a look for the family in census records. In 1871 they were in Clarence, Russell District Ontario. The children's names are given as: Julia, James, Ellen, Alexander, John and Nelson. Those are not French names. They are very common N. American or English or Irish names! My own great grandfather (Irish) was named Alexander. So your conclusion that James was a family name may be based on incorrect reasoning.

My question is:How do I find out what happened to the Ann & Thomas Whelan after they arrived in Boston in 1847?

Ask Olive Tree: Carrol, I don't think that's what you need to do. I hope I've shown you to your satisfaction that your original research is flawed. There is no shame in that, but it does mean that you need to start over.

My suggestions follow:

* Document your Ann Whelan very carefully.

* Don't jump to conclusions without having accurate sources to support them.

* Don't theorize without some evidence to support your theory.

* Go slowly and be careful that you are marking down your information accurately.

* Assess what you've found and go from there working backwards as you go.

Be prepared that if your great grandmother sailed directly from Ireland to Canada, you may not ever find her on a ships' passenger list. Those are challenging years, as Canada did not require that passenger manifests be archived before 1865. I've provided a URL ("challenging years") which will give you a list of all available ships passenger lists to Canada in the time period you want. Any that are online are clickable links.

It was much cheaper to sail to Canada and if she fled Ireland during the famine, it is unlikely she had much money. Just something to keep in mind.

Finding an Ancestor's Origin and Immigration to S. Carolina

2010-09-13T07:53:00.000-04:00

Susan asked about early immigration records

I would like to know when, where my family of Gilliard, Gillyards or any other spelling of the name name arrived in America

It is stated by all family researchers I have spoken with that they arrived in Charleston, SC. But dumb me I want to have a document that shows me they arrived in Charleston or any other port if possible. I believe the name is French so how/why the families were in Spain is another mystery.

* Joseph Marion Gilliard b. 1770 Spain d.1850 Lowndes or Brooks County GA
* Joseph Jasper Gilliard b. 1789 Spain d. 23 July 1865 Alachua County

No one has absolute proof of the birth places; it's all so far just hear say.

ASK OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Hi Susan. It's very wise of you to want documentation of family stories! Family stories are often wrong, or have a bit of truth but are mixed up. So a good researcher will never rely on them absolutely, but will use a family story as a clue, then find documents to support it or prove it incorrect.

You haven't told me what sources you have already searched or found but your first item should be census records. Then I'd look for land records. Try to find some type of document that provides information on their land of origin - is it France or Spain? What does the 1860 census give for place of birth?

Also sometimes individuals from Portugal or Spain were listed as black or mulatto - have any records that you found for your family given this as ethnic origin?

Just because they settled in S. Carolina does not mean much in terms of immigration. They may have arrived elsewhere. You need to first develop some kind of time frame for their immigration. You haven't told me what year you first find documentation of them being in USA so it's difficult for me to help you with specific ideas of where to look for ships passenger lists.

Step 2: find out what ports of arrival were in use during the time frame of their arrival. Then find out what records have survived for those ports. Here is a starting point for ships arriving in South Carolina but they could have arrived via any port that was in use at the time, and then gone on to S. Carolina

Have you looked for obituaries of the two men you listed, and their wives and children? An obituary or death record might list the country of origin.

I would gather all the records you can on the family. Sometimes it is wiser to completely fill out ALL details of your ancestors in their new country before you attempt to find their immigration.

Finding Ships Passenger Lists to Virginia before 1756

2010-09-09T11:56:00.000-04:00

Vickie asked about immigration

I am very new to your web site, and I'm not sure how to get around. I am looking for James Stedman jr & sr than came from scotland and is residing in va . I know he was born in 1729 and came over before 1756. Can you advise me how to look up his immigration date and the ship that he came over on. Any help would be much appreciated.

ASK OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Hello Vickie. I'm not sure if you are referring to my Olive Tree Genealogy website in your question but I'll assume you are.

To see all ships passenger lists to Virginia you will want to start at Ships to USA then look down the page for the link to ships to Virginia. It is under STEP 2 of the 5-Step Search for Your Immigrant Ancestor in North America

Be forewarned that before 1820 ships passenger lists to America were not required to be archived. That means you may or may not find a surviving manifest for your ancestor.

Narrowing the Time Frame for an Ancestor's Immigration

2010-09-06T11:43:00.000-04:00

Nancy is trying to narrow the timeline for an ancestor's arrival in Upper Canada (Ontario) from New York before 1861

I understand that the 1851 Humberstone Twp., Welland Co. Census records no longer exist. Can you direct me to any additional Humberstone records in the early 1850's. Was there such an item as an Ag Census at that time? My Humberstone ancestor, Conrad Robert is found in the 1861 census and his land ownership was identified through the 1862 Tremaine Map of Lincoln/Welland Counties. I'm trying to place his arrival in Ontario from New York a bit more accurately

ASK OLIVE TREE REPLY: Hi Nancy. I'm really glad you told me where Conrad was in 1861. I often like to have a look at what has been found so I can see if maybe there's another clue that was missed. Two sets of eyes are often better than one!

In this case, I notice that on the 1861 census, Conrad's children are listed as being born in Germany up to ca 1851 then the next child born ca 1853 is born in U.C. (Upper Canada)

That narrows your timeframe for immigration to ca 1850 to 1854 (allowing a year on either side of the ages given in that census)

Another help is that the 1861 census has an Agricultural Section. This page has a list of all questions asked on this 1861 Agricultural Census. You should also look at Agricultural Returns - an overlooked genealogical treasure trove!

Agricultural returns provide information such as lot and concession number, acreage, livestock and agricultural products. For the 1851 and 1861 Census, the agricultural returns are listed by the name of the head-of-household. The agricultural returns for 1881, 1891 and 1901 were not retained.

You say you found Conrad's land location listed elsewhere, which is a terrific clue but I'd verify it from the 1861. Also the Agricultural census will provide you with interesting details about your family such as numbers of farm animals by type of animal, how much acreage he has cleared, what he's planted, etc.

But the best part of having an exact Lot, Concession number and a township and county is that you can now search the Abstract Indexes to Deeds for that piece of land. This will tell you the exact date when Conrad bought the land (and when it passed from his hands to the next owner).

Because most settlers, especially farmers, bought their land as soon after arrival as possible, and Conrad was a farmer, you may find that this was the case with Conrad. Even if he didn't purchase the land immediately on arrival in Upper Canada, it will help narrow that timeline even further. I've included a link to a page explaining how to obtain the Abstract Indexes to Deeds.

As for finding earlier (pre 1861) assessment or tax records, the best course of action is always to check with the Ontario Archives or the County GenWeb to see what is available for your specific area of interest.

There are Municipal records available (nothing standardized, you must search for your specific township and county of interest). Primarily created between 1845 and 1900, these records include assessment and collector's rolls; local census records (pre-1851); voters lists and poll books; and local Town and Township council records.

The Niagara District has Census & Assessment Rolls, 1828-1849 which may be too early for your needs. In fact a quick check of the Archives of Ontario website shows that Humberstone Township only has one surviving record for 1828 - an early census.

I believe your best plan of attack is the land records.

Finding a Missing English Ancestor in Canada after 1910

2010-09-05T01:08:00.034-04:00

Rod's question was very intriguing

I am looking for Charles Stanley Morris (known as Stanley) . He was born in March, Cambridgeshire, England in 1877 and apparently disappeared in 1910-11 leaving his wife with two sons. He is the great "family secret". There is some thought amongst the English relatives I've found that he may have come to Canada.

I found the attached marriage record. It says nothing about this particular Stanley Morris nor his wife Mae Felker except their names which is very odd. I traced her. She died a just a few years after they were married. Her death record says nothing about Stanley. Maybe he left her (too).

The only other clue I have is the marriage license number - 19535. Do you know of any way I can find a record of that license? Were copies made at the time of issuance? If so, have those copies been stored anywhere you know of?

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Rod attached a copy of the marriage record he found. It was most unusual, having only the names of the bride and groom and the date of marriage - no other information re their ages, places of residence, parents' names, etc. So I had a look on Ancestry.com and found the original registration under the name STANLY MORRIS. Since I'd used wildcars and searched for STAN*, this variant spelling popped up in the search results.

Unfortunately Rod did not tell me the names of his ancestor's parents so I couldn't eliminate or confirm this as his Stanley. Given the age of this Stanley Morris, I suspect it is not the right man.

But here is the information contained on the full marriage registration on Ancestry.com

Name: Stanly Morris
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1891
Father Name: Joseph Morris
Mother Name: Ellen Howe

Spouse Name: Mae Felker
Spouse's Age: 21
Spouse Father Name: William Felker
Spouse Mother Name: Margory Nunn
Marriage Date: 13 Dec 1911
Marriage Location: Wellington
Marriage County: Wellington
Archives of Ontario Microfilm: MS932_182

You said your Stanley disappeared ca 1910 and was born ca 1877. There is a Stanley Morris living in Hamilton in the 1911 census. He's the right age, born England and immigrated in 1910. You would need to narrow your field of suspects by checking on this Stanley's occupation - does it match your man?

Perhaps you know the month of your Stanley's birth - does it match the 1911 census?

It looks like your Stanley married Mabel Martha Tibbett in 1902 in North Witchford Cambridgeshire? That marriage is found on FreeBMD. His birth was registered in Cambridgeshire between October and December 1876 so your 1877 birth year is incorrect. This is also found on FreeBMD or on the free version on Ancestry.com

You should be able to find Stanley on a Ships Passenger List to either USA or Canada. Have you checked Ancestry.com? Their immigration records are free this Labour Day Weekend.

Also, try to compare the men you find in Canada that fit your Stanley, with the real Stanley. That seems to me the most logical way to approach your puzzle.

Finding a Catholic Death Record in Ontario in 1861

2010-09-04T13:03:00.000-04:00

Julia asked about a death in Ontario Canada in 1861

I am researching regarding the untimely death of my ancestor John Coughlin at age 29. He resided in Biddulph Township in 1861, when he died. His family resided in Stephen Township and he is buried at Our Lady of Mt. Carmel church in Mount Carmel. Can you direct me as to where I should look?

ASK OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Hello Julia - unfortunately Vital Registrations of Births, Marriages and Deaths did not begin in Ontario Canada until 1869.

You will have to find the local church (Our Lady of Mount Carmel) and ask to consult their records if they exist. Many Catholic churches do not allow the church books to be consulted so be prepared.

Abbreviated Names in Genealogy Records

2010-09-03T10:22:00.000-04:00

Mitch asked about a set of early ships passenger lists to Virginia found on my website at
http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/tova_constance1635.shtml

Contained in the the following link on your site are a number of names beginning with "Tho:" Are you able to explain what that means, please? For that matter, "Jo:"? I hope you are able to help, as I am stumped!

ASK OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Hi Mitch. "Tho." refers to the given name Thomas. No doubt the original record had the small superscript "s" added, which is the common method of denoting this abbreviated name.

As for "Jo" you will find two schools of thought on this - that it refers to the given name John or the given name Jonathan. Usually you see it as "Jno" so perhaps "Jo" is a transcription error.

Getting Copies of Your Own Naturalization Records

2010-09-02T12:08:00.000-04:00

Sandra wrote asking for help with her own naturalization records

I am looking for my naturalization form. I have contacted the Immigration Office, but need the certificate number from the document I am trying to replace in order to apply for a new one... catch 22 - need help...

Naturalized: May 12, 1994
Washington County, Maine

ASK OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Hi Sandra,

My understanding is that for naturalization records after 1956, Freedom of Information requests must be sent to the appropriate BCIS District Office

I would simply do that - send in an FoI request and ask for a copy of your records. That should give you the numbers you need to request any specialized forms you might need.

Missing 1st and 2nd Class Passenger Names 1897-1903

2010-08-31T06:12:00.014-04:00

Debbi asked about an ancestor on a ship arriving in New York
Hi. I searched the New York arrival for the October 14 1899 Palatia ship passenger list and didn't find my family. I know they were on board this ship, why are they not listed?

and have not survived

That means that the names of passengers in 1st or 2nd class will not be on microfilmed ships passenger lists, or in the Ellis Island online database.

There are some exceptions but if you can't find an ancestor and you have proof he/she was on board a certain ship, this anomoly during this brief time period may explain those missing names.

Please see Ellis Island Missing (Cabin) Manifests, 1897-1903 for more information.

ASK OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Dear Debbi - From about June 15th 1897 until approximately March or April 1903, the lists for first class and second class passengers were not collected at Ellis Island

Certificate of Legation

2010-08-30T18:07:00.000-04:00

David's question is one of three he submitted about his grandfather (whose name David did not share)

In March of 1891, he was issued a "Certificate of Legation from the United States, to the German Empire" (I have this document) My take on this, is this document guaranteed his safe travel BACK to Germany and return as a United States citizen. Is this a correct assumption on this document?.

ASK OLIVE TREE response: Dear David - I personally have never seen such a Certificate. I would have to see the original document to provide a response. What agency issued it? What exactly does the document say?

It would also help to know where you obtained this document - that is, what set of records? Or is it an original document in your possession?

Immigration Years on Documents Can Be Wrong!

2010-08-29T14:12:00.018-04:00

Gina's question is a challenging one:

I am an Australian with a grandfather who came here in 1922 from USA. I have been searching for over 15 years (before computers)for his birth certificate. The only details I have are his alien registration in 1939, his marriage certificate in 1929 - and that's it.

Through these documents I have searched, and searched and found nothing. It seems what he stated may not have been fact.
His name was "Russell McDonald Cartwright" ? born in Fort Worth, Texas in 1906. He stated his fathers name was Russell Cartwright & mothers name was Anita McDonald. I haven't found these 2 names together anywhere. Russell does not appear to be in the Texas archives. The 2nd name McDonald, doesn't appear anywhere with his 1st and last name. He came on a ship called the "Canadian Highland" in 1922. I don't find a trace of that ship docking in Australia at all? I have no clue where it originated as I was hoping backtracking could help.

I am floundering - I don't know where to turn - Can you help??

ASK OLIVE TREE response: Dear Gina, Have you seen this record for your ancestor which is on the Australian National Archives website?

Russell Cartwright (Includes Photograph of Subject) - Nationality:American - Arrived Brisbane per Canadian Highlander, 14 May 1922 Born 14 june 1906 Ft Worth TX

The scanned document is online if you have not seen it.

However, the date of immigration is often mis-remembered, and it may not be accurately given by Russell. I would search a year or two on either side of 1922. The same is true of the ship name. Russell may have mis-remembered it.

You should search the 1910 and 1920 census records for USA. I like Ancestry.com for census records but you may be able to find them elsewhere.

I think you need to widen your search, keeping in mind the point you made that Russell may not have told the truth OR that he may not have known! It is also possible that he was an illegitimate birth or that he did not grow up with his parents.

Recording Name Changes in a Genealogy Program

2010-08-27T10:55:00.000-04:00

Barbara's question concerns listing names properly

How do you list birth name changed to Legal name? My birth name was Riley but Bradford was the name of my stepfather and the name I have used all of my life.

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: Dear Barbara, Can I assume you are talking about how to enter your name information in your genealogy program?

If so, then you have a few options. You can enter yourself with your birth name and list an AKA (also known as). You can enter the details in the notes section that applies to you.

If you prefer you could enter yourself with the name you've commonly used, and explain your birth name and details around your name changes in the Notes section.

It's really up to you!

Searching for a Loyalist Ancestor

2010-08-26T08:14:00.000-04:00

Rosemary asked about her Loyalist ancestor:

I am looking for the connection in the US for William Osterhout, who was my 4th ggfather. He was a private in Butler's Rangers. When he arrived in Niagara after the Revolutionary war, he married Elizabeth Pickard, whose father and uncle were also in Butler's Rangers. They had 10 children! I have found lots of info on the Pickards, but I am not sure where William came from. I am assuming New York State but there are many Osterhouts and many Williams or Wilhelms.

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: Dear Rosemary

I'm happy you sent this to me because three of my ancestors were Loyalists who fought in Butler's Rangers. So I have a pretty good idea of how I can direct you to find out more details about William Osterhout.

Searching for more on a Loyalist ancestor is complicated and can be a lengthy process. The early Ontario records are held in different locations and are sparse. But don't despair, just keep digging!

The very first thing you should do is obtain all the Upper Canada Land Petitions for William. Be careful to search under spellings such as OOSTERHOUT, OOSTERHAUT and so on.Obtain them all, because you have no way of knowing what tidbits of information will be found in those petitions.

For example my Isaac Vollick's petition contained an affidavit from his commanding officer in Butler's Rangers telling how Isaac's wife Mary and 10 small chldren had been forced from their home in northern New York by those opposed to the British. The detail was of course fascinating to me but best of all it gave a precise location for where the family lived before 1796! I also found mention that Isaac had been jailed in Albany several times during the first years of the American Revolution - another plus having that location which led me to his baptism record

For help with the UCLP (Upper Canada Land Petitions) have a look at the information and instructions found at this link.

Something to keep in mind is that Loyalist units were almost always mustered in one geographic location and the men in them knew each other well, being friends and neighbours. Butler's Rangers was mustered by Col. John Butler in New York and consisting of Mohawk Indians and men from New York. So almost certainly your William was originally from New York.

You should also have a look at the advice and information on Loyalists found at this link. When seeking details of a loyalist ancestor it's very important to understand the process they went through to become a Loyalist and find all records that might exist documenting their hardships. These records often contain gems of genealogical information such as origins.

Available Census Records Question

2010-08-25T10:43:00.000-04:00

Shirley's question was about census records

Why do the available census records stop in 1930?

ASK OLIVE TREE answer: Different countries have different privacy laws and these dictate when census records can be viewed by the general public.

I assume you are asking about American census records. Because of a 72-year privacy law, the 1940 USA census will not be available for public inspection until April 1, 2012.

Questions asked on Naturalization Documents

2010-08-24T10:19:00.000-04:00

Jim asked about Naturalization Records.

Is there any one record/form from a Nashville, Davidson County, Tennessee naturalization of 1888 that would include the applicants parents names?

ASK OLIVE TREE response:

Dear Jim,

Parents' names was not a required question on Naturalization documents. See Naturalization Records in the USA for an example of documents in various years.

To find parents' names your best bet is a marriage record, an obituary, a death record or birth/baptism of the individual.

Don't overlook information on original sources!

2010-08-23T02:31:00.010-04:00

Disownya1 asked about a record he/she found:
I found the declaration #639 and declaration page 211 on Francesco Vartuli under Declaration of Intent for Naturalization: New York County: 1907-1924. I can't find what is in the file, only those numbers. What can I do with those numbers? Order online? Go to New York and do a physical search?
ASK OLIVE TREE answer: Well Disownya1, you sent me on a bit of a chase! You neglected to tell me *where* you found this indexed information so I had a hunt.

Why did I need to know where you found it?

Because 99.9% of all databases, whether online or in a book or on microfilm, have an EXPLANATION with the data which explains where the database came from, what's contained in it and where to obtain the full details!

This is very important. Without that information you are in the dark as to how and where to obtain the full record. So I'm always surprised by how many researchers overlook it. It might be at the beginning of a book or microfilm, or at the end. With an online database you must look to see where it is displayed on the website.

So I went on a hunt and I found that you searched Index to Declaration of Intent for Naturalization: New York County, 1907-1924 on Ancestry.com . This is what I needed to know - the location where you found the entry. Then I simply read what was on the page on the website and your question was answered.

So go back to the website. Search for your name of interest again. When you see the search results you will also see a paragraph or two that begins with

Source Information:

Ancestry.com. Index to Declaration of Intent for Naturalization: New York County, 1907-1924 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2003.

Original data: New York State Supreme Court. Declarations of Intention filed in New York County, 1907-1924. County Clerk's Office, New York County, New York.

Description:
This database is an index to Declarations of Intentions for Naturalization for New York County, New York, U.S.A. from 1907 to 1924.....

Keep reading - you will see a clickable link "Learn More..."

By clicking on that link you will find out exactly what information the original records contain.

But how do you get those records? Well, if it were me, I'd write and request them from the Original Data source given with the explanation. It tells you exactly where the originals are kept.

Finding a Death at Sea

2010-08-22T09:39:00.000-04:00

Maureen's question is about deaths on board a ship.

How can I find out if my Great Grandmother was on an immigration ship in 1887 and buried at sea?

OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Dear Maureen - there are two parts to your question. First, to find out if your great grandmother was on board a ship in 1887, you must consult the ships' passenger list.

You didn't say where the ship was sailing to so I can't give you specific help, but Ancestry.com has many of the ships passenger lists to USA and Canada indexed and online. You might also check Ships Passenger Lists on Olive Tree Genealogy.

Deaths at sea were recorded on the passenger manifest. So again you need to find the ships' passenger list. You may find the death notation beside the passenger name or you may find it listed on the last page of the manifest.

Whether or not the individual was buried at sea will depend on where the ship was at the time of death. For example my great-great grandmother Sarah (Elvery) Stead died on board ship en route from England to Australia in 1867.

However the ship was either in or very near Sydney Harbour at the time of her death, so Sarah was buried in a cemetery in Sydney. Had they been in the middle of the ocean, I suspect she'd have been buried at sea.

Finding Texas Naturalization Records Before 1930

2010-08-21T10:48:00.000-04:00

Tonya, from the County Clerk's office in McKinney Texas had an interesting question for me about naturalization records before 1930

I am trying to find out who kept local naturalization records in Texas prior to 1930. We do not have those records in our archive (County Clerk) and the District Clerk has said they don’t have anything either. Do you know who else may have kept those records? The Texas State Archives have indicated they should be local. Can you help?

ASK OLIVE TREE response: Dear Tonya,

You didn't provide me with a start year for the records you are interested in. 1906 is a cut-off date and you will need to check either PRE 1906 or POST 1906 for your answer.

I'll assume POST 1906 but before 1930 for the purpose of this blog. BCIS naturalization certificate files (C-Files) include a duplicate copy of all naturalization records after September 26, 1906. C-Files include all US naturalizations from all States and Territories, and from all courts (Federal, State, and local).

Most C-Files from 1906 to 1956 are on microfilm, with the remainder in paper form, and BCIS has an index to those that have been filmed. They are available with a Freedom of Information/Privacy Act request to BCIS Headquarters in Washington, D.C.

See NaturalizationRecords.com for more info and al ink to a FOI page

Finding an Early Ontario Ancestor's Birth Records

2010-08-20T09:13:00.001-04:00

John's question was about birth records in Ontario before 1860:

I am researching my family in the UK and have found two ancestors apparently born in London, Canada West. They are :-

Hannah Olivant born about between 1854 and 1857 and John Olivant born between 1856 and 1858. (From UK census information). Parents Isaac Olivant and Ann Olivant.

Is it possible that their baptism records have survived and if so could you advise me on the best place to look for them?

ASK OLIVE TREE Answer: Dear John, Canada West became Ontario but Ontario did not begin civil registration until 1860 [sorry this is a typo, the year was 1869!]. That means you must search church records for your ancestors' baptism.

The next problem however is to determine IF the necessary church records exist! Your first step is to note your ancestors' religion, then find the relevant churches for London Ontario that have surviving records.

Next you need to know what District London was in for the years you need. Canada West was divided into 20 Districts and within those Districts were various counties. See the linked teext for Canada West to determine the district and county name that you need.

Having armed yourself with the needed facts (religon, district and county name) you can have a look to see what church records exist between the years 1854 and 1858

You might check the Ontario Archives and London Public Library for help with finding available Church Records

You should also have a look at the Ancestor Birth Record Finder for ideas on other places to search.

Wives Were Considered Special Cases for Naturalization Records

2010-08-17T12:37:00.000-04:00

David asked 3 questions about naturalization and citizenship records. He tells me he's never had a definitive answer to any of the three. Here is one of them with my response.

"My grandfather married my grandmother, in Brooklyn, NY on Feb. 1892. She too immigrated, and was from the former German Province of Posen.(today Poland

I have never been able to find any ship manifests listing her, but my main question, is, since my grandfather was naturalized in 1890, did she receive 'automatic' citizenship as a result of his naturalization?"

Olive Tree Answer: Dear David, I'm answering one of your 3 questions today as it is a very quick and easy one to respond to. A visit to Special Cases on my NaturalizationRecords.com website will provide you with the definitive answer you've been looking for.

Scroll down the page to the brief section titled WIVES.

I will answer your other questions too in a future blog post.

Outbound Ships Passenger Lists

2010-08-16T18:07:00.000-04:00

Shannon's question involved outbound ships passenger lists from USA.

I'm looking for incoming ships lists for Naples, Italy and Palermo, Italy between 1910 and 1914. Port of departure is New York City.

Do you know if this records exist? Or if there are outbound USA ship records between 1910 and 1914?

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: Hi Shannon. That's a good question and it's an easy question to answer. Neither USA nor Canada kept any outgoing ships passenger lists.

That means you need to check the incoming port of arrival to see what ships passenger lists (if any) survive and are accessible for your time frame.

So you will need to check for incoming lists in Italy 1910-1914. I'd try their state archives. This site has a list of them.

You might find reference to passengers in local newspapers. There is project to list outbound Ships Passenger lists from the actual ship papers given to passengers which you may want to check.

Searching Border Crossing Records for an Ancestor

2010-08-13T11:26:00.000-04:00

Hazel's question involved Canadian research.

You are my last hope in finding details of my gt uncle george. I have very little to go on:

George murray 1885 Crimond Aberdeenshire Scotland. Parents were George and Isabella Murray. In the 1901 census aged 15 he was an apprentice printer living in Fraserburgh Aberdeenshire Scotland

The only other information I have is that he emigrated to Canada, I think Montreal Quebec. Also my sister thought that he had died in Canada in the late 1950s , had never married, but before she could tell me where she found this information from, she died.

Gt uncle George is the only relative that I am missing in my family tree. CAN YOU HELP PLEASE

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: Dear Hazel - Your first step should be to look for Uncle George in the online 1911 Canadian Census. You can use Automated Genealogy or Ancestry.com. A quck look showed two very nice candidates - both immigrated in 1910. One is in Ontario, the other in British Columbia

Next, have you checked the online Border Crossing Records? I had a quick look and am pretty sure I found your Uncle going between USA and Canada. These Border Crossing Records are online on Ancestry.com.

Don't forget to search the online Ships Passenger Lists to Canada for your Uncle's arrival! Use Ancestry.com or check the links to other online Canadian Ships Passenger Lists projects at Filling in the Gaps - Canadian Ships Passenger Lists.

Get details from these records first, and that will help you narrow your search to a specific location in Canada.

Finding American Naturalization Records circa 1955

2010-08-12T09:36:00.000-04:00

Angela asked about naturalization records:

My father, Norman MacGregor Post and mother, Jane Irene Coulter Post, moved to the Williamsport, PA from Toronto, Ontario, Canada in 1944. They became naturalized around 1955, having lived in Basking Ridge, New Jersey from 1948 until their deaths, his in 1977 and hers in 1999.

I remember that they had naturalization papers because they always carried them with them when we traveled to Canada in the summers to visit family relatives. After my mother's death in 1999, the papers disappeared.

I am hoping to benefit from the revised Canadian law that allows first generation Americans to recover Canadian citizenship through their parents. I need my father's (or mother's) naturalization certificate to show they were Canadian citizens when I was born in 1953. Family lore suggests that they became naturalized in 1955.

Can you help me locate a copy of his naturalization certificate.

OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Angela - A visit to the website NaturalizationRecords.com will probably answer your questions.

Basically BCIS naturalization certificate files (C-Files) include a duplicate copy of all naturalization records after September 26, 1906. C-Files include all US naturalizations from all States and Territories, and from all courts (Federal, State, and local). C-Files contain a copy of the Declaration of Intention to become a US Citizen (to 1952), Petition for Naturalization, and Certificate of Naturalization.

The C-Files are microfilmed (and indexed) so if your parents naturalized before 1956 you should be able to find them.

The records are available with a Freedom of Information/Privacy Act request to BCIS Headquarters in Washington, D.C.

Go directly to Naturalizations in USA after 1906 for full details and to read what to do if they naturalized after 1956.

Searching for Naturalization Records

2010-08-10T02:37:00.006-04:00

Robert's question was about Naturalization records:

NAT records of Stanislaus/Stanley/Charles Regeleski c. 1892 to 1899

NARA and the State of New Jersey ( Middlesex County Archives) report they DO NOT have a record for this Subject during this time period. The Surname could have been: Regeliski; Rogalski; Regielski and evenRegilski.

The 'court of record' could have been located in the State of New Jersey or New York. Not much to go on -right ? Thought you may have some input regarding NAT records. Thanks anyway..

OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: Dear Robert, First things first. You haven't said how you know that Stanley naturalized. Did you find information on his citizenship in census records? If not, that would be your first step - to verify that he did indeed naturalize. I'd visit the website NaturalizationRecords.com and read what census records have citizenship information. (Hint: 1870, 1900, 1910, 1920, 1930 all have various details) Remember, it is a voluntary act, Naturalization is not required

If you have found that Stanley indicated he did indeed naturalize, then you will want to read about finding Naturalization Records before 1906. Before 1906, the declaration of intent generally contains more genealogically useful information than the petition. Petitions before 1906 usually show only a name, former allegiance, and date of naturalization. The declaration may include the exact date of immigration into the United States.

Lastly, have you found a ships' passenger list for your ancestor? These are steps I would follow to find his naturalization records IF they exist.

Tracing an Illegitimate Ancestor

2010-08-09T07:49:00.000-04:00

Dave sent a question about tracing an illegitimate ancestor

I'm tracing an ancestor name Lancelot Hardy who was born in 1796 in Yorkshire, England. I've found his birth record in the IGI and only a mother is listed. I obtained a copy of the original record through the LDS church and he is listed as a 'bastard' and only the mother's name is given. So my question to you is, in a case like this, is there any hope of being able to trace the father? What steps, if any could I take?

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: Dave, that's a great question and one which many researchers will find impacts on their genealogy lines.

My own great-great grandmother was baptised in a church in England as Georgiana the daughter of the widow Hannah Golding. No father's name was mentioned but I thought it would be pretty easy to find Hannah's deceased husband Mr. Golding. It was, but what I found was that he'd died four years before my Georgiana's birth! So I was in the same boat you are - how to find an illegitimate child's father's name.

I find it helps to try to put ourselves in our ancestor's shoes. So think about the cirucmstances. What are the possibilities?

1. Lancelot's mother did not know who the father was (a child of rape or prostitution or any number of other circumstances) If this is the case you're out of luck

2. Lancelot's mother knew the father's name but never told anyone else. Again you are out of luck unless she kept a diary or noted it in a family bible and you can find it

3. Lancelot's mother knew the father's name and had some kind of ongoing or non-combatant relationship with him and told the child. More on this in a moment

4. Lancelot's mother knew the father's name and told family or friends. You may be in luck as one of them may have told someone else and you may be able to find out that name through family stories passed down in your branch or another branch

Let's talk about #3. As I was gathering more documents on my Georgiana Golding, I acquired her official marriage registration. Lo and behold her father was named on it as George Norris. What a stroke of luck! Apparently Georgiana's mother wanted her daughter to know her father's name and perhaps even had a long-standing relationship of some kind with him. In any case armed with that one tidbit of very important information, I have been able to find Georgiana's father George Norris and trace him back several generations.

You are probably asking how I could possibly know I have the correct George Norris. Luckily this all happened in a very tiny village called Lenham in the 1840s. George was their next door neighbour for over 30 years. He never married. Some of his relatives were witnesses at various marriages and baptisms of Georgiana's children. So while I haven't got 100% proof, I have enough circumstantial pieces of evidence to satisfy me that I have the correct man.

Another illegitmate ancestor of mine had no father named at her birth in Suffolk England in the 1790s. However I found Bastardy Examination papers for her which gave the father's name and residence. If you are not family with Bastardy Examination records this might be a very good source for you.

Local parishes did not want to be financially responsible for an illegitimate child born in their parish, so a woman who was pregnant or had given birth would be examined (questioned) by a midwife or other authorities. The father's name would be noted and both parents would be ordered to pay so much money per month for the child's upkeep. You can read a bit about my search for Removal Orders and Bastardy Orders if you are interested

So don't give up your search. You may still find that bit of information you need

Find Clues and Follow Them to Find Ancestors!

2010-08-07T18:37:00.000-04:00

jeanne asked about her ancestor

I am trying to search my father's family tree and the only information I have is my great-father, William Rymell (Buffalo, NY). My father says that our ancestors before William's parents came over from Ireland (possibly through England). The last name may have been spelled differently such as Rimel? Can you help?

OLIVE TREE ANSWER. Dear jeanne

You didn't provide me with details I needed to help you. I don't know when your William was born. I don't know where. I don't know his wife's name. Any or all of those details would allow me to direct you to resources.

However, I'll walk through a list of what you can do IF your William is the William married to Ada and living in Buffalo in the 1930 census. If he's not, you will have to apply my advice below to your specific situation.

William married to Ada was born ca 1886 in Pennsylvania. He says his parents were both born in Pennsylvania. His middle initial is "A". He says he was 18 when he married. This gives a year of marriage ca 1904.

These are great clues. You can now look for him in 1900, 1910, and 1920. See what other details emerge. With any luck he will be with his parents in that 1900 census.

You can look for a marriage record ca 1904. Perhaps it will provide his parents' names and allow you to search back further.

He is also found in the SSDI (Social Security Death Index) with a date of birth 1 Mar 1886. This is another great clue, it allows you to hunt for a birth certificate and find out his parents' names.

A search in 1920 census shows his father Thomas H Rymell [sic] living with him. Thomas is 60, born Pennsylvania. More clues to follow (year of birth) Thomas gives his father and mother's places of birth so there are more clues. His father was born England according to this census.

His father must have arrived in USA before 1860 as that is the approximate year of birth for Thomas. Find the family in the 1860 and 1870 census. Find out when they immigrated. Search ships passenger lists for Thomas' father. See if Thomas' father naturalized. Lots of clues here!

Again, if this is not your William, just follow the same procedure I did. Find records, read them carefully, think about the clues and follow up on them. That's a sure fire way to find out more about your ancestors and your family tree.

A Dictionary Can Be Your Best Friend

2010-08-06T12:26:00.000-04:00

Marlene asked the following question:
I was searching tax lists for Berks county Pennsylvania for the year 1785 and at the end of each township was a list of inmates and list of single men. I thought a inmate was a single man. What is the difference?

ASK OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Marlene, any dictionary (offline or online using a Search Engine) will provide you with a generic definition of the word "inmate".

However in this case, more specifically, an inmate is a resident in some type of institution - usually a prison or an orphanage or an asylum/hospital of some sort. It has nothing to do with marital status

Finding Brooklyn Church Records

2010-08-01T14:14:00.000-04:00

Barbara asked
Where Can I find Brooklyn church records (not Flatbush etc.)

Olive Tree Answer: Dear Barbara - You haven't specified what year(s) or what denomination you want for Brooklyn Church Records.

Ancestry.com has Brooklyn, New York Catholic Church Marriage Records, 1839-1900 online.

Baptisms from 1660-1710 and Marriages from 1660-1696 in the Reformed Dutch Church of Brooklyn exist. Try http://www.germangenealogygroup.com/townmarriage.stm as they have some miscellaneous Brooklyn records online

Here is a nice little list for you as well at http://www.bklyn-genealogy-info.com/Worship/BklynReformedDutchRecords.html

Many of the Brooklyn Church Records are available in microfilm from Family History Library. See the list at FamilySearch

Copyright Issues

2010-07-26T08:54:00.000-04:00

Shirley asked an interesting (and important!) question about copyright regarding a letter she wants to submit to one of my websites Past Voices:

Hi, I would appreciate a bit more information on submitting a recently unearthed letter a great uncle wrote. Many family members want a copy of this. I would also like to put it online on your site. Are there copyright issues?

OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Shirley, I'm glad you asked this question. Copyright is so important and it's an issue that is often overlooked or violated without hesitation.

I am not an expert in copyright laws but I believe that if your uncle is deceased and the letter is in your possession, you do not have to worry about copyright. Of course if your uncle is alive, he owns the copyright and should be consulted.

Out of respect for any living people who might be mentioned in his letter you should consult them to ask their permission for it being posted. You could also remove their names and identifying or personal information.

I am sure my readers will weigh in with their thoughts on copyright. You may wish to consult the proper copyright laws. You haven't said what country you live in, so here are a few of the copyright agencies for various countries

CANADA

USA

ENGLAND

Finding a Missing Grandmother after 1958

2010-07-24T18:04:00.000-04:00

Brianne asked about her missing grandmother.

My grandmother left my mother's family around 1958 with a man other than my grandfather. Since then, we haven't been able to find anything about her. She was a French native and came over to the US in 1946 after she married my grandfather. We have been trying to find her for at least 20 years and there seems to be no sign of her anywhere, even her French family never heard from her. Wouldn't there be records of her naturalization or social security number somewhere? As far as I know, she never had a SS# before she left my grandfather. Also, I found her passenger list....does the application number mean anything? What would you suggest to try and find her?

OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Hello Brianne - I've edited out the details re your grandmother's name, her date of birth and the name of the man she ran off with. It was for privacy reasons, as there is a chance she is still alive. But let me go ahead and try to answer your query.

First, there might not have been any need for your grandmother to naturalize as she may have had automatic citizenship under her husband. See http://www.naturalizationrecords.com/ for more help and information on Naturalization in USA

Second, she might not have had a SSN, she may not have needed one.

Thirdly, it sounds as if you want to find her after she left her husband in 1958 so finding previous records wouldn't really be much help to you. Her passenger list application number won't help as she arrived in 1946, 12 years before she ran off.

Does your family have any clues at all? Rumours of a state or town/city where she went? What did the man she ran off with, do for work? I'd gather all the clues you can. Write them down. Talk to your mother and any aunts/uncles who might remember something.

Talk to your other grandparents, talk to any family members you can and ask for details - were they religious (maybe you can find a church they belonged to), did they have any passionate hobbies (maybe you can track them through clubs they might have joined)... etc.

But your quest might be a challenge because if your grandmother ran off and never contacted her children again, she may not have wanted to be found. That means she may have taken great care to hide her whereabouts. She could have used any of 3 surnames - her maiden name, her married name or her boyfriend's name. All of this makes your quest a challenge.

Please do get back to AskOliveTree if you find any further clues that might help - even the age of her boyfriend would be helpful, or where he was born. All of these might lead you to his death or other record which in turn might lead to your grandmother.

Get Cracking and Find those Probate Records!

2010-07-22T09:39:00.000-04:00

Kevin wrote to ask

My great-grandfather died a loner, in a nursing home, with no apparent heirs (long story). Are probate records worth pursuing in this case? Generally, are there cases where pursuing probate records is a waste of time?

OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Dear Kevin,

Personally I have never left a known record unchecked. I advise researchers to not leave any stone unturned, no matter how remote the chance of learning something new.

You never know what you might find! Even if 99.9% of the type of record you seek have nothing new, it is not a waste of time to have a look. You never know what might be in that one record you are after.

For example, the Ontario Land Board records almost always have nothing of note other than a simple one line entry with date of purchase and name of purchaser. So nothing new is added to what the researcher already knows.

Because I search every record, I learned quite a bit from the Ontario Land Board records. Because my ancestor had much more than that typical one line entry. Beside his name and date of purchase was a lengthy comment which named his father and his brothers and gave more detail on their property holdings.

If I'd shrugged my shoulders and said "oh waste of time to check" I'd never have found that information

So my advice - get cracking and find those probate records!

UPDATE: Reuniting a MIA American soldier's dog tags with family

2010-07-15T08:16:00.000-04:00

Recently I was asked for help finding an American MIA from WW2 whose dog tags were found in Germany.

Alex in Germany wrote to tell me about his find for the serviceman Thomas J. Lillard of San Antonio Texas. I am thrilled to announce a happy ending to the story of the hunt for Thomas' family.

Please see We did it! Reuniting a MIA American soldier's dog tags with family for full details