When Family Lore Leads You Astray

TWISS family on Ship Peruvian September 1888

Olive Tree Genealogy had an interesting question from Shannah about her grandfather.  My findings point out the need to take family lore with a grain of salt and don't accept it as gospel. 

Here is Shannah's email:

I have been trying to find out where my Grfa., TWISS, William James, had "landed" for over ten years, to no avail, from Cty. Cork, Ireland to New York, USA..  He was a mere 17 year old, at the time.  

The story I was told was that it was my Grfa. who had left Cork, Ireland, from Sept. to December of 1887 (I believe these are the months) on the Barque Julia, from Edinburough to Cork and to New York.  This particular Barque was a ship of supplies and the Captain was a friend of my Gr-Grpars., TWISS, Francis Edward Day, Sr..  It was my Grfa. who had suggested that he, himself, come out to Canada, first and they allowed it but he must go with someone they knew.  It was only a few days' trip and have researched into several ports along the eastern coast to no avail.  When he had landed, he had stayed with friends of his pars., (never knew who they were) Francis Edward Day and Ellen THOMPSON, in New York for a while then travelled up into BINBROOK, Wentworth Cty., Ontario, Canada to stay with our cousins/family there while his own pars. arrived through Montreal, Quebec, Canada in the following springtime.

First I made a mental summary of the important statements in Shannah's email:

1. William James Twiss born ca 1870 Ireland immigrated to N. America on the ship Julia in 1887
2. William's parents Francis Edward Day & Ellen Twiss sailed to Montreal Quebec in spring of 1888

Making a mental note of these statements  does not mean I accepted them as fact. It was obvious they were family lore passed on through the generations.

Curious about what I found for Shannah? The rest of the story is at  http://olivetreegenealogy.blogspot.com/2014/08/dont-let-family-lore-lead-you-astray.html

How to Find Someone after Arrival USA 1903

An email from a Norwegian researcher arrived today in Olive Tree Genealogy's mailbox

My name is Silje . I need some help to find the family of my husbands great great grandfather. He left Norway in 1903 true Liverpool UK and came to port of New York, USA 10 of september 1903 with a ship called Aurenia. His name at the records I found at Ellis Island was Theodor Olson he is born in 1870 in Norway. The ships manifest says that he was going to St Paul but I dont know. The family never heard from him. He left a wife and 3 children in Norway. Hope to find some relatives who migth have some info about him.

 Silje - since Theodor arrived in America in 1903 you should look for him in the 1910, 1920, 1930 and 1940 census records. These are all freely available at FamilySearch

 The ships manifest shows that he is heading to his brother-in-law so I would also look for him in the census records. As a side note it appears the ship name is Aurania in case you are referring to it in future.

So Many Clues You Can Follow to Find an Ancestor's Immigration in USA or Canada

Olive Tree Genealogy received a request from a reader (Hillary M.)

Because my answer covers so many generic research suggestions I thought it might be helpful to post it here. I have edited the query as follows:

Dear Olive Tree,

I need assistance locating immigration/migration records for my gr-gr-grandfather Henry Arthur Bolton and my gr-gr-grandmother Emily Meyrick.

The problem is, I don't know exactly when Henry immigrated to Canada from England, or when he migrated from Canada to the United States.  In the US census records his immigration date changes; 1900 census states 1875, 1910 census states 1871, 1920 census states 1872.

What I do know is he married Emily Jane Meyrick on October 14 1886 is Worcester Massachusetts.  His marriage record states his parents names as George and Elizabeth.  At the time of his marriage his age is listed as 25. 

He died in Massachusetts May 14, 1942 (My grandmother was 19 years old)

Hello Hillary - The first thing that jumps out at me in your query is that immigration date for Henry. That date does not likely refer to his immigration to Canada but rather into the USA. So if he was first in Canada for a period of time, the year he crossed the border to USA is almost certainly what is being referred to. (immigration years 1871, 1872, 1875)

Continue reading  So Many Clues You Can Follow to Find an Ancestor's Immigration in USA or Canada

Ships Passenger Lists From Italy

John S. asked Olive Tree Genealogy for help finding a ships passenger list:

I am having difficulty finding the arrival record of my great grandfather in North America.  I know that he lived in the province of Cosenza, Italy & departed Naples, Italy in the 1884 time frame identified as Napoleon Bellaspica Lepera.  Are passenger departure lists available for Naples during this time frame?

John - Ships Passenger lists for North America are best searched by arrival country or port, not departure port. The manifests were made at the port of departure, then turned in at the port of arrival.

You should be able to find your ancestor in ships lists on Ancestry.com. These manifests are indexed and linked to online images for both Canada and USA.

Be sure to use wildcards when searching as Lepera could be easily misspelled or badly transcribed. I would  search using L*P*R* to pick up alternate spellings. Also, upper case "L" can be mistaken for upper case "S" by indexers so you may need to try a second search using S*P*R*

Barnardo's Children Query

Marg wrote to Olive Tree Genealogy with an intriguing query

My gt.gt grandfather died in 1882 and his wife just a year later (in Sunderland workhouse. ) I'd been told by someone that she thought the younger children were adopted and have found trace of one of them. But the youngest child isn't in any records that I can find, til he appears on familysearch.org [in the 1881 census]

He is Joseph D. L. Stansfield, born in approx. 1880, parents Thomas and Mary Ann Foster Stansfield (nee Maule). Someone has just told me that he thinks that Joseph was sent to Canada by Barnardos.

Ships Passenger List Parisian 1888

Dear Marg - There is a Joseph Stansfield who matches your Joseph on board the ship Parisian in 1888. He is part of a group of children with Maria Rye Homes, heading for Niagara-on-the-Lake in Ontario.  He is 8 years old. You can search the index on Collections Canada at the link above, or you can view the image on Ancestry.com

One caveat - he is misindexed on Ancestry as "Jno" (which is why using wildcards is an important tool in genealogy research) His is the last name on the graphic on the left. It is only part of the page of the ship Parisian's manifest.

There is a lot of information on Miss Rye's Niagara-on-the-Lake Home for children at Canadian British Home Children   Sadly there seems to be no information on where Miss Rye's records were kept, or even if they were saved when she was no longer in business. If your Joseph had been part of Barnardo's you could have sent for his records but Miss Rye was not a Barnardo home.

You can also find more information on Miss Rye and her home children at Immigrants to Canada
There are two researchers who are reconstructing her records as best they can. Please see this page for details

His marriage record is found on Ancestry.com dated June 24, 1908. His full name is given as Joseph David Lionel Stansfield and he is age 29, born England, a bookkeeper. He gives his mother's name as Mary A. Foster, but did not provide his father's name. His bride was Edith McCarthy and they married in Toronto.

You should be able to find him on the 1891 and 1901 census, perhaps even 1911. In fact I took a quick look and found Joseph and Edith with their two children in the 1911 census for Toronto. If you are using Ancestry.com he's misindexed as "Joye" but remember you can always search under his wife's name if you are unable to find him.

There are two sons - one is 3 years old and another son whose name is so illegible I can't even make an educated guess as to what it is. This son is 4 months old so I had a look and found the birth records of both children - Lionel Thomas Stansfield was born 25 May 1909 and his little brother Randolph Ferguson Stansfield was born 9 February 1911.

I think you should be able to find more about Joseph and his descendants with this start.

Finding an Ancestor's Arrival in Canada in 1842

Jim asked Olive Tree Genealogy a question about transportation from Quebec to Montreal in 1842

My great grand parents (John & Mary Anne White), and their family (6 children) arrived in Quebec City, in June 1842, from Sligo, Ireland.  They were granted their Land in Albion, Ont.,  in Oct 1842. 

 

What is the most likely method of travel, and route,  from Quebec to Montreal, and then on to York? 

Olive Tree Genealogy Answer:

Jim - Most immigrants traveled up the St. Lawrence by boat to reach Montreal and then often continued on by boat to get to York (present day Toronto). From there they might have taken a stagecoach or wagon or walked to their inland destination. 

Sometimes the original ship carried on from Quebec to Montreal but sometimes they had to transfer to another boat. 

Sue Swiggum of The Ships List website has been busy for a few years transcribing the steamship passenger lists for boats carrying immigrants to Canada West (aka Upper Canada aka Ontario) from Quebec and Montreal.   Ship arrivals in 1842 from May to July are found here.  If you know the ship name you will find more details on Sue's page. There are some ships that have passenger names attached to letters or special notations made by the Captain.

The St. Lawrence steamship records start in 1819 and are found here

You can also search the Immigrant Agents' Records. There is much detail to be found here. See Filling in the Gaps for a comprehensive list of all available Immigrant Agent Records and other resources for your time period of interest.

FIguring Out Where an Ancestor Arrived and Settled in Canada Before 1865

Gail wrote to Olive Tree Genealogy with a challenge.

Since you say you love a challenge, I have one for you. Franz Alois Frankenberger was born in Monchberg, Germany in 1833. He came to Canada before moving on to Buffalo, N.Y.  My challenge is to find the port they came into, and where they actually settled. The first 4 children were born in Canada before 1865. The other 3 were born in Buffalo. Can you help find them?

Gail - Here are some ideas and suggestions for your research.

The first important thing you need to know is that ships passenger lists arriving in Canada did not have to be archived until 1865. So your chances of finding your ancestors on a ship manifest IF they came in directly to a Canadian port are slim. However - and here is the second important thing for you to note - there are scattered substitutes. There are shipping agent records, immigration agent records and records of steamship passage along the Great Lakes carrying immigrants further inland.

There is a comprehensive list of *all* available substitute records, and links if they are online, at Filling in the Gaps in Ships Passenger Lists to Canada 

Third important fact - Ontario vital records were not registered until 1869 so if Franz' children were born in Ontario before that year you will need to locate church records IF they still exist. Remember that these are early years for Ontario as it was not settled until after the American Revolution. So records are sparse and scattered. It takes time, energy and patience to find what might be relevant to your ancestral search. 

You may have noticed my assumption that Ontario was where Franz settled. I only suggest that due to your noting that he ended up in Buffalo. Had he settled in Quebec he would likely have gone to Vermont. If an eastern Maritime province, Maine or another eastern seaboard state is more likely. That doesn't mean he couldn't have gone to Buffalo from another province, I'm just suggesting the most likely candidate.

Other things you can look for: 

* Try to find a more precise location of settlement in Canada. Here's a few ideas:

1. Check USA census records for each of the Canadian born children as well as their parents. Do they say those four children were born in Canada or do they say Canada Eng (usually refers to Ontario), Canada East, Canada West or some other designation. Canada East = Quebec. Canada West = Ontario. 
2. Look for death records and obituaries of the four Canadian born children.
3. Look for the death record and obituary of Franz and his wife.
4. Look for marriage records of the Canadian-born children as they might contain more precise birth locations

I like Ancestry.com for Canadian census records and GenealogyBank for American newspaper records. You can also consult Fulton Postcards for New York newspapers.

* Did you look for the family in available Canadian census records for 1861? You haven't told me when his four children were born so I don't know if they were in Canada in that year. 

These are just a few of the next steps you might want to take in your search.

Query About a Naturalization Record and Ships Passenger List

Bob asked a very interesting question which I believe this may be useful to other genealogy researchers.  Here is my edited version of Bob's email:

My 2nd great grandfather was Michael McGinnis.  He is said to have been born 1805-1807 in Dublin, Ireland. He was m. to Catherine McGuire in Ireland. Children born in Ireland were: Patrick- abt.1826, Edward-abt. 1829, and two daughters- abt.1831 &1834.  A daughter, Ellen was born in New York, Dec. 27, 1836. The family inferentially dates his immigration to America between Jan.1835-Dec. 1836, possibly on the Barque Tweed (although no other family members are shown).  
 

He lived in Johnson Co., Iowa from 1841 until his death Jan. 11, 1870. I recently found his date of naturalization, July 22, 1844, in Dist. Court, of Keokuk Co., Sigournery, IA. The card only shows his name and country of birth as Ireland. No other information.  Do you think there would be a Declaration of Intent record somewhere?  I've checked Keokuk Co. clerk and recorder, public library, historical society, and genealogical society, without success.

Bob - For naturalization records you may want to visit the USA section of NaturalizationRecords.com  Since your ancestor naturalized in 1844, you will want to look at "Naturalization Records Before 1906". There should be a Declaration of Intent for your ancestor and it will almost certainly have more details such as exact date of arrival, but may not have an exact location of birth.

Continue reading at Hunting For an Elusive Passenger List and Naturalization Record

Finding an Ancestor in Canada Requires More Precise Location

Angela asked Olive Tree Genealogy a question about finding someone who moved to Canada.

I am searching for my great uncle, Julius Idavain, born 1/12/1918 in Estionia,  he had brother Edward 1/3/1910 , (my grandfather)   a sister HIlda 2/5/1913  , Edward took ill and later died in New york in 1942,   Julius visited my mother when she was a child,, she was told by her grandfather that Julius had moved to Canada , and used to keep in contact by ltr with her grandfather,   I have searched records for canada but cannot find anything , even on any ship records, . Any ideas ??

Angela - You will have trouble searching for records unless you can narrow down the geographic location. Canada is the second largest country in the world and every province and territory has different records from different years kept in different locations! So unless you know at the minimum a province or territory you're going to have a challenge.

Also, ships passenger records to Canadian ports of arrival are not available online after 1935. Immigration records after 1935 are in the custody of Citizenship and Immigration Canada. To obtain a copy you must meet certain requirements which are outlined on the website.

You could try the Border Crossing records for USA and Canada if you have not already done so.  These are found on Ancestry.com

Canada also has strict privacy laws so it will be quite difficult for you to get information for the years you require it. For example our most recent searchable census is 1911. This will give you some idea of how far back you need to go to access many records.

Figuring Out Manifest Markings on Ships Passenger Lists

Kristen had a great question

I am looking for some help on my great-grandfather Guy Reginald Austen Bolam.

He was born in 1900 in England, traveled back and forth between the US and England much of his life, and died in the US in 1970. His father was William Austen Bolam (AKA Austin Bolam or Cecil Austen Bolam) who was born in England around 1871 and died in 1955 in Florida. We are unsure of who his mother was.

My specific question is regarding the passenger record for his August 20, 1921 arrival in New York at Ellis Island on the ship "Aquitania." There are several notations on his and his wife Helen's entry in the original ship manifest, including those in the Head Tax column and several other places. Could you tell me what these notations mean? (I found this ship's manifest on www.ellisisland.org.)

Also, it is listed on this same ship's manifest that he previously entered the country in 1905 and 1921. While I have found an entry in 1919 (which I assume to be the stated 1921 entry), I cannot find the 1905 arrival. Do you have any suggestions?

Ask Olive Tree Genealogy Response: Kristen you've done some good researching and analyzing of the records you found for your great grandfather. Manifest markings are difficult.

You might want to check the glossary on Jewish Gen as it shows two of the markings beside your great grandpa's name:

C.L. = Certificate of Landing
USC = United States Citizen

A certificate of landing was pretty much the same as a Certificate of Arrival and was noted on passenger manifests after 1926 as part of the naturalization process.

I'm afraid I don't know what the numbers 3/24099-EF refer to  but I'm willing to bet it's a case file reference of some sort.

Tips for finding the 1905 voyage referred to are probably ones you already know:

* Use wildcards such as B*l*m* for Bolam and variants
* Don't use a first name
* Use a date of birth plus/minus 5 years
* Don't use any names, just use place of birth and date plus 1905 as year of arrival
etc

Just keep playing around with a less and less restrictive search to widen the possibilities. Oh and don't forget that it's possible he arrived at a port city other than New York.

Finding an Ancestor on Ships Passenger Lists circa 1846

Mary Lou asked about a ships passenger list circa 1846.

I have searched for many years for name of ship my g-grandfather Joseph Ecabert, age 28, farmer, came over on. He was from Switzerland. His passport was dated March 23, 1846. There was a cousin Joseph who came with brother Ignace in April 1847 and some have confused him with my Joseph. I don't know where he left from nor where he landed. I first found him in New Albany, Floyd County, Indiana in 1850.

Mary Lou - My first question is how you know that "cousin" Joseph is not your Joseph? I"m not saying you are wrong, but wondering if you have proof they are not the same man. Did you trace "cousin" Joseph to prove he was in a different place or with a different family at the same time as your Joseph?

Let's assume you have proof they are not the same person. With a surname like Ecabert you need to be very creative when searching. Use wildcards if possible. For example on Ancestry.com you can search for e*b*rt and that would pick up many variant spellings

Have you allowed a year or two past the date you have for his passport application? He may have arrived much later than you think.

Don't forget he might have come in via Canada and if he did you are probably out of luck as ships passenger lists to Canada did not have to archived until 1865.

Look for naturalization records if he naturalized. Some census years will give you that information. For example the 1870 census will show you if he was a citizen of the USA. If yes, you know he was naturalized.

Genealogy Isn't Always Easy So Dig Deep!

I dislike anonymous queries. Most often I don't respond to them. But this one caught my attention because I believe many genealogists are struggling with a similar problem.

So I've decided to respond to it. I'm going to break this query into 4 sections (questions) and respond to each in turn.

Q 1:

.... I still can't find out when my GGGrandfather Robert Scott born 1804 in County Mayo Ireland died 9 Jan. 1893 in Chatham Ontario ,came to Ontario Canada lived in Norwich Oxford County where he had 10 children with his wife Ann Carroll .

ASK OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Dear anonymous, You are very lucky that your ancestor had 10 children. By tracing each of these children and finding their obituaries or death notices you may find evidence of when their father came to Ontario. When you are stuck it's a good idea to broaden your searches to other family members

Q 2:

The James Allison records are just letters and orphens who came to Canada in the 1840's.

ASK OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Not sure how/where you got this idea but it's not correct.The James Allison Records cover the years 1823-1849. They are not just letters and orphans! James Allison was the emigrant agent at Montreal. His job was to see that destitute immigrants arriving in that city had food and transportation to their settlement areas (usually Upper Canada, which is now the province of Ontario)

The records include such items as lists of passengers on steamboats from Montreal to Upper Canada, provisioning lists of immigrants including such comments as "expecting to get to her husband in Merrickville"

Q 3:

I have looked in your site and can't find anything. WHAT file would give me info on when these two Ann Carroll born 14 May 1815 in Ireland don't know where and died in Portage La Prairie Manitoba on 1 Jan. 1916 at the age of 101 years old . These two person have been a mystery to me as there is no info on them as to when they came to Ontario Canada & who they came with (siblings & parents) . I have them in census from 1851- 1910 but not before 1851 is there any info on persons of this time period.

ASK OLIVE TREE ANSWER: This is a challenging time period and you do not have a very narrow timeframe in which to search. Basically you are saying that between 1815 and 1851 (almost 40 years) is when they arrived in Ontario. You will need to narrow that down.

Regarding my site Olive Tree Genealogy, it requires reading what is there and clicking on various links that might take you to a database of interest.

For this early time period in Ontario you may have to search OFFline as well as ONline. Thus you may need to read the instructional information on my site in order to learn WHAT is available for this time period and WHERE to find it. Often we have to learn what is available before we jump in to searching frantically for an ancestor's name.

The fact that you misunderstood the scope of the James Allison records suggests to me that you skimmed over my site's pages far too quickly.

Q 4:

Your help in directing me to the sites for immigration between 1800- 1831 would be gratefully apprectiated. already have checked out 18 sites

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: It's interesting that you have kept track of how many sites you have been to! I'm sorry to tell you that is not a lot of searching! It's a drop in the bucket when you consider how challenging a time period early Ontario records are, and how many different sites and physical repositories you will probably have to consult in your quest.

As for immigration between 1800 and 1831 I can definitely direct you, but I'm curious how you suddenly got down from that 1851 year to 1831?

In any case, if you visit Filling in The Gaps you will see a 2-column chart called "Finding Ancestors on Canadian Passenger Lists"

You want "Ships Passenger Lists Before 1865" on the left side. You must understand that there are *no* comprehensive ships passenger lists of immigrants arriving in Canada prior to 1865. Until that year, shipping companies were not required by the government to keep their passenger manifests.

What I have done is to list EVERY possible alternative source, such as Steamship Records, Emigration Agent records, Shipping Company Records and so on.

I cannot stress enough that at this time NO OTHER LISTS OR RESOURCES ARE KNOWN TO EXIST.

There may be others which have not yet been discovered - buried in a dusty basement of an Archive or in ledger books buried amongst other physical items. But the important point is that this list online has ALL AVAILABLE RESOURCES for Ships Passenger Lists to Canada before 1865 listed and linked to. A few are only found offline but most have been published online as special projects.

You can of course also consult land records for your ancestor as most settlers immediately bought land. Find out when he bought his (if he bought any) and that will narrow your time frame for immigration.

You can also consult early (pre 1851) tax and assessment records to find out when he was living in Upper Canada.

You appear to have overlooked the 1842 census which actually gives the number of years the person had been in the province. Look for your ancestor there.

Finding a Ships Passsenger List to California in 1935

Joan asked about a ships passenger list from New Jersey to California in 1935:

Can you suggest where I might be able to find a passenger list in 1935 ... sometime from the date my Grandmother died (28 Jan, 1935) ... through July.


I'm looking for my Grandfather, Ernest C. Hinck. He traveled from California to NJ in February (probably by train with my Grandmother's body). On the return trip by boat, he met a woman whom he subsequently married in July 1935. It was a short marriage since he died in May of 1936.


My sister and I are trying to confirm a family story about this woman.

Hello

If I understand your query correctly, you are looking for a ships passenger list for a voyage from New Jersey to California ca 1935.


As far as I know, it was not a requirement to keep lists of ship travel within the USA, meaning from one state to another. However, to be certain, I suggest you go to TheGenealogySpot to find out exactly what passenger lists NARA holds for California arrival ports

Another place to try is the list of sites with passenger lists arriving in California.

Finding Ships Passenger Lists 1870s

Brett asked about an immigration record circa 1872 to USA.

im looking for immigration records for one of my relatives. Iver Frank Olson was born June 1850 in Norway and emigrated to Chicago Illinois in 1872. i would like to find these records as it may say his 3 siblings on there. i think he came across alone as his dad died in 1854 and his mom in 1871. any help would be greatly appreciated!

Hi Brett - The fastest easiest way for you to find Iver is to search the complete ships passenger lists on Ancestry.com. Even if he came in via a Canadian port, you should be able to find him since they also have Canadian records after 1865.

There are other free sites where you can have a hunt for a passenger, but no one has the complete passenger lists except Ancestry.com.

Be creative in your search and use the wildcard feature to search for names such as ive* ols*n, iv*r *ls*n and so on. That will pick up mis-spellings and variations in the name

Here are some free websites you might want to start with:

Olive Tree Genealogy Ships Passenger Lists

The Ships List

Immigrant Ships Transcribers Guild

Ships Passenger Lists - How Many Per Voyage?

Richard asked about finding ships manifests for a ship which his ancestor was supposedly on.

I need help finding a manifest from the port of disembarkation because my great great grandfather's name is not on the one for the port of arrival. The ship arrived in New York from England in 1854. How do I find that manifest taken when the ship left England?

Perhaps your ancestor travelled on a different ship, or on that ship but on a different voyage.

Ask Olive Tree Response: Hi Richard - Unfortunately for your needs, there is only one manifest taken for a ship. It is made at the port of departure and turned in at the port of arrival.

Finding an Early Ancestor to the New World

Carol asked about an early ancestor to the New World:

I have trouble in spelling surname on ships. my name now is GARRISON, Garret Jansen von Oldenburg was my ancestor. He came to New York in the 1600s. what spelling should I use in tracing him on the ships.

Ask Olive Tree Response: Carol that's a great question. It can be very confusing for researchers trying to find an early Dutch ancestor.

It depends whether or not your Garret used his patronymic of Jansen (with variant spellings), or an established surname, or some other identifying name.

You will have to search all variations or possible names, or
start browsing through each ships passenger list in the years you think he came over. Remember too that passenger lists as we know them did not exist for those early Dutch ships. All we have are the lists of who owed for their voyage, not the list of those who paid before sailing.

Also, remember that if he was Dutch he didn't use "von", he was a "van". "von" is German. Even if he was German, the Dutch may have applied "van" to indicate where he came from. Van Oldenburg might be his 'surname' or it might be a location name.

Using search engines when looking for these early Dutch lines is challenging as the names can vary so much in spelling and even in what name was used by the individual.

For example you write his name as Garret but you must try Gerret and Gerrit and Gerritt. For his patronymic of Jansen, try Jansz, Janse and even Janszen.

Searching for Ships Passenger List leads to Passport Records

Jane asked about a ships passenger list for an ancestor but her question led to some interesting details in passport applications:

Found naturalization papers for my grandfather, Harry Belmont (b 1868), indicating he came to New York in 1880 aboard the ship Earnwell orErnwell from the port of Marseille. Can find no record of this ship arriving. Ancestry.com does have the ship listing with a few dates, but not 1880.

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: Hi Jane

You have to be cautious with immigration years. They are
very often misremembered. When your grandfather naturalized,
it was not required that there be a check (verification) of
the dates he gave. So he could be in error.

See http://naturalizationrecords.com/usa/ for more info on
naturalization records in the USA

I did a little looking for you and found some interesting data. If I have the right Harry Belmont, in one census year he claims to have immigrated in 1883 so you can see how the years can differ. in the census he says he is a waiter, born France.

Your grandfather also applied for Emergency passports in
both 1892 and 1897. These are found on Ancestry.com

On 6 May 1892 he stated that he was currently living in Vienna and needed a passport. He further states he arrived from Marseilles in Ny in 1880 (no name of ship given) and lived for 10 years in NY. He says he was naturalized 5 Sept 1890 in NY and that he left the USA on 6 Feb 1891 on board the Earnwell (?) and landed in Marseilles 17 April 1891. So here we have evidence that the ship was leaving New York for Marseilles, not the other way around, UNLESS he happened to sail on the same ship first time over to USA.

I say first time bcause he goes on to say that he lived in France and Russia since Apr 17 /91 and is currently in Vienna but intends to return to USA within 2 years to take up permanent residence

There is more, you should access this to see the whole document (it's on Ancestry.com ). It gives a precise place of birth, his occupation (steward) and a physical description

He applied again on 14 Sept 1897 stating he is living temporarily in Vienna. It is basically the same immigration info - again, there is no ship name, just arriving in NY in 1880. He references his leaving NY on the Earnwill/Ernwell in 1891 landing in Marseilles in April that year. Now he says he is a clerk. You can access the complete document on Ancestry.com

I hope this helps a bit, I am not convinced he arrived in 1880 on the Ship Earnwell or Ernwill, so if I were you I'd search under his name for any ship arriving that year (and perhaps a year on either side)

Finding an Ancestor's Origin and Immigration to S. Carolina

Susan asked about early immigration records

I would like to know when, where my family of Gilliard, Gillyards or any other spelling of the name name arrived in America

It is stated by all family researchers I have spoken with that they arrived in Charleston, SC. But dumb me I want to have a document that shows me they arrived in Charleston or any other port if possible. I believe the name is French so how/why the families were in Spain is another mystery.

* Joseph Marion Gilliard b. 1770 Spain d.1850 Lowndes or Brooks County GA
* Joseph Jasper Gilliard b. 1789 Spain d. 23 July 1865 Alachua County

No one has absolute proof of the birth places; it's all so far just hear say.

ASK OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Hi Susan. It's very wise of you to want documentation of family stories! Family stories are often wrong, or have a bit of truth but are mixed up. So a good researcher will never rely on them absolutely, but will use a family story as a clue, then find documents to support it or prove it incorrect.

You haven't told me what sources you have already searched or found but your first item should be census records. Then I'd look for land records. Try to find some type of document that provides information on their land of origin - is it France or Spain? What does the 1860 census give for place of birth?

Also sometimes individuals from Portugal or Spain were listed as black or mulatto - have any records that you found for your family given this as ethnic origin?

Just because they settled in S. Carolina does not mean much in terms of immigration. They may have arrived elsewhere. You need to first develop some kind of time frame for their immigration. You haven't told me what year you first find documentation of them being in USA so it's difficult for me to help you with specific ideas of where to look for ships passenger lists.

Step 2: find out what ports of arrival were in use during the time frame of their arrival. Then find out what records have survived for those ports. Here is a starting point for ships arriving in South Carolina but they could have arrived via any port that was in use at the time, and then gone on to S. Carolina

Have you looked for obituaries of the two men you listed, and their wives and children? An obituary or death record might list the country of origin.

I would gather all the records you can on the family. Sometimes it is wiser to completely fill out ALL details of your ancestors in their new country before you attempt to find their immigration.

Finding Ships Passenger Lists to Virginia before 1756

Vickie asked about immigration

I am very new to your web site, and I'm not sure how to get around. I am looking for James Stedman jr & sr than came from scotland and is residing in va . I know he was born in 1729 and came over before 1756. Can you advise me how to look up his immigration date and the ship that he came over on. Any help would be much appreciated.

ASK OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Hello Vickie. I'm not sure if you are referring to my Olive Tree Genealogy website in your question but I'll assume you are.

To see all ships passenger lists to Virginia you will want to start at Ships to USA then look down the page for the link to ships to Virginia. It is under STEP 2 of the 5-Step Search for Your Immigrant Ancestor in North America


Be forewarned that before 1820 ships passenger lists to America were not required to be archived. That means you may or may not find a surviving manifest for your ancestor.

Missing 1st and 2nd Class Passenger Names 1897-1903

Debbi asked about an ancestor on a ship arriving in New York

Hi. I  searched the New York arrival for the October 14 1899 Palatia ship passenger list and didn't find my family. I know they were on board this ship, why are they not listed?

and have not survived

That means that the names of passengers in 1st or 2nd class will not be on microfilmed ships passenger lists, or in the Ellis Island online database.

There are some exceptions but if you can't find an ancestor and you have proof he/she was on board a certain ship, this anomoly during this brief time period may explain those missing names.

Please see Ellis Island Missing (Cabin) Manifests, 1897-1903  for more information.

ASK OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Dear Debbi - From  about June 15th 1897 until approximately March or April 1903, the lists for first class and second class passengers were not collected at Ellis Island