How to find a Roll Number for Native American Ancestry

Mike G. asked:

There is Native American members of both my paternal and maternal sides, but I am having the hardest time finding Indian Roll Numbers. I live about equal distance between Houston and Dallas. I have heard that the genealogy library outside of Dallas would be a better research location. Any suggestions?

Olive Tree Answer: Have you searched the Dawes Roll Index at http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalrolls/ or the other Rolls listed on that site? I'm afraid that I don't know what library you mean by "the genealogy library outside of Dallas" aand I don't live in the area so I can't advise you on that, why not just call or visit the library and see what you think of it.

Finding an ancestor's arrival in American or Canadian ships passenger lists

Ken asked:

Joseph and Elizabeth Maidens emigrated to the US after July 1849 and with brother William were in Nepeuskin and Rushford areas of Winnebago, Wisconsin, confirmed reference the 1850 US Census. William living with the Slingsby family. My question is how did they get there? I'm looking for ports of departure and arrival, passenger list and ship information related to these ancestors aged 27 - 35, who left their Revesby, Lincolnshire, England homes.

Olive Tree Answer: Hello Ken. It is possible that your Maidens family came in to the USA via Canada. Fares to Canadian ports of arrival were much cheaper than to America. However that presents a challenge as before 1865, Canadian ships passenger lists did not have to be kept. However, some were and there are alternate resources. You may want to consider checking these out by using the 2 column chart of links at Filling in the Gaps in Ships Passenger Lists to Canada for PRE-1865 Ships Passenger Lists to Canada and POST-1865 Ships Passenger Lists to Canada.

Finding Records for Grosse Ile in 1832

Jim asked:

Thomas Brooks (1776-1851) appear to have come over from England with the Petworth Emigrants. They arrived at Grosse Ile on June 8, 1832. Thomas and his family were taken off the ship and kept there because he was a cabinetmaker and they needed him build coffins as people died from the cholera epidemic. Does Grosse Ile have any records regarding people who may have been employed there? The Canadian government must have fed and housed the family during their stay. They may even have paid Thomas Brooks some wages.

Olive Tree Answer: Jim, I'm wondering how you know that Thomas was "taken off the ship and kept there" to build coffins. Did you find some record of this? Or is this family lore? As for Grosse Ile, their surviving records are online, and you can follow the link found at Filling in the Gaps The records are the names of 33,026 immigrants whose names appear in surviving records of the Grosse-Île Quarantine Station between 1832 and 1937.

You might also want to check the various Emigrant Agent records that have survived such as the Records of James Allison or Anthony Hawke. The Hawke Papers, letterbooks of Chief Emigrant Agent Anthony B. Hawke are available at the Archives of Ontario from 1831 to 1892. You cannot search the Hawke records pre 1865 online, for those earlier years you must view the microfilm through the Archives of Ontario. Records of James Allison, Emigrant Agent at Montreal, 1823-1845 are searchable at Ancestry.com

If you are lucky you may find some brief notation for your ancestor in one of the Emigrant Agent papers.

FInding immigration record from Ireland to Australia

Faye asked

I have tried for years to find out how my husbands grandmother came to Australia from Ireland. I have her birth certificate, her in the 1901 Irish census BUT not in the 1911 cencus. I have her only childs (that we are aware of) birth certificate born in Sydney Australia. With this all I cannot find the ship, the dates, etc. where she travelled from and to. The info I have is as follows.

Jane O'Dea born November 1881 Baunmore, Kilkee, Kilrush, County Clare, Ireland. Father, Thomas O'Dea, mother Bridget, nee Bourke. Jane was 4th of 8 children. Jane was also known as Jennie or nana Jean to my hubby. She was informant at her fathers death in 1898 and was in the 1901 census with her mother and siblings. She was not in the 1911 cencus that I could find. She gave birth to my mother in law, Veronica May on 14th January 1915 at Crown St Womens Hospital Sydney, NSW Australia. Jane registered Veronicas birth and stated she was married to "William Sanders Hart", b. Canada in 1870's and a general labourer in New Zealand in 1906. No one can find the marriage but can find a "William Sanders Hart" marrying someone else in New Zealand in 1906. [rest of email edited for brevity]

Olive Tree Answer: Dear Faye, thank you so much for providing me with details and a very nicely compiled, easy to understand email outling what you know about Jane, where you've looked and what you want to find. The only reason I edited your email was for space here on AskOliveTree blog, but everything you sent was relevant and welcomed.

I am afraid I have not had much luck either but I did find one tiny item that may or may not be helpful. There is a Miss Jane O'Dea listed as arriving on the ship OMRAH on 30 April 1904 on the Index to Unassisted Inward Passenger Lists to Victoria 1852-1923 on the Public Record Office Victoria website. It might be worth sending for the full passenger list to see what other information is provided.

Best of luck!

Figuring out the proper name of a female ancestor

Karen asked

How do I find the names of my great grandmother? Her maiden name was Minnie Miller, Minnie could have been short for Wilhelmina? She was from Denmark, the Chicago census says she came from Denmark in about 1888 and settled in Chicago and married Walter Ambler. Her death record lists no parents and neither does her obituary. What other source could I use?

Olive Tree Answer: Hi Karen, your genealogy problem is a bit of a challenge isn't it? Yes, Minnie could be short for Wilhelmina but it could also be a nickname that has no relationship to her "real" name. For example my husband's grandfather was born and baptised "Thomas Leon" as his first and middle name. His entire life he was called "Charlie" and on his driver's licence and all official records he is recorded as "Charlie"

But here are some ideas I had for you to perhaps track down Minnie. First, have you found her marriage record? What about birth records for any children? You might find the Ancestor Marriage Record Finder and the Ancestor Birth Record Finder helpful. They offer ideas for finding obscure marriage and birth records.

Next, a look in the 1900, 1910 and 1920 Chicago Illinois census on Ancestry.com shows that Minnie gives the years 1885, 1886 and 1887 for her immigration. So be sure you are allowing a year or two on either side when you search. I would search for her from 1884-1888. Have you tried the Danish Emigration Archives for Minnie's arrival? Minnie also states she was naturalized by 1920 so I'd also look for those naturalization records. You can try Footnote's naturalization Records database too with a Footnote Free Trial


Please let us know here on AskOliveTree how you make out!

Gleaning information from an old family letter

Carrie sent a graphic with an explanation

I am attaching a note written by a cousin perhaps or someone closely related to my Grandma Alice, it may be one of her sisters or a cousin (child of one of her parents's siblings?) Not sure. the hand-written "mess" that was confusing me even worse was on my grandmothers side which Yes...she is a Babinec but I neglected to mention that the mix-up that she wrote about is on HER side of the family which is PAUZA.

Olive Tree Answer: Hi Carrie, I've been working on your family tree questions, and hope you have seen my previous two answers Sorting Out Family Information on Ancestors and Separating Family Lore from Facts I've now tackled your family note which appears to be part of a letter and believe I have some answers for you.

If we look at the signature of the sender of this letter, we can see that it is "Gust. & Berthe Pauza" The note provides information on the recipient's father, mother, uncle and aunt. We don't know the recipient but you feel it may have been addressed to your Grandmother Alice who was the daughter of Vaclav Pauza and Antonia Vochner. It is obviously written to a child of Vaclav's as it states "your father's brother..."

The first thing you need to do is find out who the writer was. How closely was he related? When was he born? That will give you some idea when he may have written the note. Finding all this will give you a better feeling for how reliable the note is.

I found a Gustave Charles Pauza in Ancestry's U.S. Passport Applications, 1795-1925 applying for a passport on 6 Aug 1921. He states he was born July 19, 1882 He and his wife Berthe were living in Cleveland Ohio. I believe this is the man who signed your note "Gust. [short for Gustave] & Berthe Pauza". He gives his father's name as Jehe (hard to read) Domenic Pauza. He also states he arrived in USA on 12 August 1903 on Ship Augustus, that he naturalized in Missouri in 1916 and is a barber.

Since the name of his father is not the same name as the father given for Vaclav Pauza, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Vaclav and Gustave are brothers. It is more likely they were cousins but this is something you will have to research further. Gustave can also be found in the Wisconsin WW1 Draft Registrations on Ancestry and other records. With a bit of time you should be able to gather some good details on him and this should help you with your direct ancestry.

As an aside, in case you have not seen this, your Vaclav Pauza is found as James Pauza in the 1910 census for Cleveland Ohio so be careful to use alternate Americanized names and wildcards when using search engines. Remember too that a "u" can be misread as "n" when records are being transcribed or indexed.

Finding David Chesterman

Tom asked

David James Chesterman was a native of Andover, Hampshire, England, b. about 1830. Martha Sandy was a native of Fordingbridge, Hampshire, England, b. about 1829. David arrived in Canada before 1855, but I don’t know any more details of this event. Martha (age 26) arrived in New York aboard the Mary Ann Peters on 22 May 1854. David and Martha were married in St. John’s Episcopal Church in Ogdensburg, NY on 27 May 1854. The marriage register of the church shows that David’s residence was “Elgin Canada W”, and Martha’s residence was “Bristol England”.

The family Bible of David and Martha recorded their marriage (see above), and the birth of one child, George William Chesterman at Meaford Canada W (Ontario) on 23 Aug 1857. For the 1861 census the family of 3 had returned to Ibsley, Hampshire, England. I have not found a passenger list showing this return to England. This Chesterman family remained in England until after the 1871 census, which recorded them living in Bassingbourne, Cambridgeshire, England. Some time between 1871 and 1881 the three of them returned to Ontario, although I have not found them on any passenger list.

The 1881 census of Canada shows that James (DJ) and Martha Chesterman were living in Ramsay, Lanark County, Ontario. Ontario marriage register shows that George married Ellen Toshack Cram on 20 July 1882 in Almonte, Lanark, Ontario, and names David James Chesterman and Martha Sandy as his parents. The family Bible recorded the death of Martha on 25 March 1887, but did not record the place of death or the place of burial. I haven’t found any record of it in the Ontario death register, so I am still looking for this information.

The Perth (Ontario) Courier reported the death of David James Chesterman on 24 Nov 1893, “Chesterman—Died, at Almonte on the 6th November, David James Chesterman, aged 64.” I haven’t found any record of this death in the Ontario death register, so I am still looking for this information and the place of burial.

Olive Tree Answer: Hello Tom - so many unanswered questions! It's very frustrating I know when you have one set of ancestors who are much harder to find than others. But you've gathered quite a bit of good detail on your David and Martha, and I wonder if making a short timeline might be useful?

For example your timeline would consist of the years and what you know:

1829: Martha Sandy, Fordingbridge, Hampshire England
1830: David James Chesterman birth Andover, Hampshire England
1830-1855: David arrives in Canada
1854: Martha arrives in NY
1854: David & Martha marry Ogdensburg New York. David of Elgin, Canada West
etc

By creating the timeline this way, I can see immediately that we have a big timeline for David's immigration (1830-1855) but we should be able to narrow that! If he was still in England he should show up in the 1841 census. If he doesn't, then we might tentatively change his immigration time frame to 1830-1841. Likewise you can check the Canada West (Ontario) census for 1851. Not finding him there will not be proof that he wasn't physically in Ontario as much of that year's census is missing BUT if you find him there you have helped narrow the timeframe.

If he married Martha in May in New York and the record says he was in Elgin (presumably Elgin County) then you have to allow time for him to travel from Elgin to New York in time for the wedding! Also, how did he meet Martha? Where did he meet her? Since she married so soon after arrival, it makes me wonder if they met in England and David sent for her to come to meet him.

You say the family returned to Ontario from England between 1871 and 1881. They should turn up then on either the Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935 (online and indexed on Ancestry and online but not indexed on LAC) or in American ships passenger lists, also online.

Regarding David Chesterman's death in 1893, I see that the 1891 census for Almonte Town, Lanark Ontario has David Chesteman [sic] age 62, a widower born England, living with Frederick and Janet Crusoe. Have you tried searching the online Vital Registrations using only a location and a year of death? You could also add an approximate year of birth, but you might want to try this method of leaving out the person's name.

I would also look for local United Churches in the Almonte area. David states he was a Methodist and this became United Church, so perhaps you can find a church burial record. Did you look at the Lookup Service for Lanark GenWeb Cemeteries? There is also the Wesleyan Methodist Burial Ground near Almonte that you might want to have a look at.

I'm personally somewhat intrigued by the burial of John Chesterman (1820-1878) and William Chesterfield (1846-1913) in Estherville Cemetery in Bayham, Elgin County. Could they be relatives of your David? If this were my family, I would track them down to either eliminate them as relatives or find that they are.