Can't Find Ancestor's Death Record - Now What?

Cliff asked Olive Tree Genealogy for help finding an ancestor's death:

I've been looking for my great great grandfather's death date for the past 20 years, and I have been noteably unsuccessful :-(

- Robert "Red Robin" Johnston, b. ca. 1807-1808, Ireland,

- came to Upper Canada ca. 1822-1832, married Mary Francis McQueen in 1833 - marriage bond issued on July 22, 1833,

- farmed just NW of Pendleton, N. Plantagenet Twp., Prescott Co., Ontario, CANADA, died ca. 1895-96 - estimated by the activity on the land record of the farm. [large portions of email edited by Lorine]

Any help that you can give me before I die - I will appreciate it very much :-)  I would like to place a tombstone on his grave site - there is none there currently.  The cemetery has no record of his death date - just where he is buried among family.

Olive Tree Genealogy's Answer

Clff  - Since you know where your great-great-grandfather is buried, you might want to think about  erecting a tombstone that  simply bears his name, place of birth and death and perhaps that he was the husband of Mary Francis. I would add her years of birth and death if you know them just to give some idea of Robert's time period for future historians and genealogists.

The sad fact is that not all deaths were registered! If he died in the winter and it was a difficult trip to the registry office, the family might not have bothered. And if it were registered in the Church records (which you noted burned) they could have felt they'd done enough.

Have you seen the Ancestor Death Record Finder? You may want to have a look as it gives many other sources for finding an ancestor's death date.

You provided me with a nice list of where you've searched - thank you! But you didn't tell me what names you searched under. His surname can be recorded as Johnstone, Johnston, and Johnson and it can be mis-recorded many ways! If you didn't use wildcards in your searching, you should. Also his first name and nickname. Perhaps he was record as Rob, Robbie or Robert. Perhaps as Robin or Red. Hopefully you checked under all variants including just initals (R. Johnstone)

A little caveat - be careful narrowing that estimate of his death only based on the land record activity unless it states the land was going to his heirs! Otherwise you might want to stick to 1891 census (if you found him there) as the last record for him and note that he does not appear in the 1901 census (if that is the case)

I think it's wonderful that you want to erect a tombstone to honour him. I'd do that right away and put as much information on it as you know. You can always add to it later if you find an exact date of death.

Finding an ancestor's arrival in Canada before 1865

Marie asked a question

I have been having a lot of problems trying to get information on my family thomas wingle birth around 1829 in ireland he was married to Johanna O'Brien they were married around 1865, in our Lady of Angels Church in Brudenell Renfrew Country of Ontario Canada. Johannas parent were James O'Brine and Ellen Gisson (spelled Kissan or Kissane).i think they were from Co. Kerry. Thomas had a sister Hannah there patients were Michael Windle and Bridget Moore. information i have is the hannah died in 1917. i have not been able to find any more information or any way to find out when and were they landed in canada if it was canada or the U.S.A i would appreacate any help you can give me in the line of information or help.

OLIVE TREE ANSWER: Hi Marie. Unfortunately finding a ships passenger list to Canada in the time period you need is a challenging task. Ships Passenger lists were not required to be kept before 1865 so it is hit and miss whether or not you will find one. However if you go to SHIPS PASSENGER LISTS TO CANADA you will see a section called "Filling in the Gaps in Ships Passenger Lists to Canada"

There is a lookup service provided there (for a small fee) in the following Books of Immigration and Ships Passenger Lists Records.
[BOOK 1] Names of Emigrants 1845-1847. Records of James Allison, Emigrant Agent at Montreal (Quebec Canada)
[BOOKS 2-4] Canada Company Remittance Books 1843-1847 in 3 Volumes.
[BOOK 5] Index of Passengers Who Emigrated to Canada between 1817 and 1849.

As well you will find links to online sites that have miscellaneous ships passenger lists to Canada in the time period you need (1829-1865).

Here are just a few of the ones that may be of most help to you

* The Hawke Papers, letterbooks of Chief Emigrant Agent Anthony B. Hawke are available at the Archives of Ontario from 1831 to 1892. The 1831-1865 records are not online but can be consulted at the Ontario Archives

* Passenger Books of J & J Cooke, Shipping Agents with sailings from Londonderry Ireland to Quebec and St. John New Brunswick from 1847 to 1871.

* Return of Emigrants Landed at the Port of Kingston Ontario, Canada 1861-1882 gives the final destination of the individuals, their date of arrival at Kingston and more.

Don't overlook death records as a source of information on an ancestor's origins and place of birth or immigration year. You might find Ancestor Death Record Finder helpful

Did you check census records for the year of immigration?

There are many avenues of research open to you. I'm sure you can find out much more about your ancestors with a bit more work.

Don't Put all your Genealogy Eggs in One Basket!

Donald's Question:

Hiram Walker was born in Tennessee in 1807 and married Judah George in 1827. According to the 1880 Census his father, Alexander Walker, was born in Ireland and his mother was born in Pennsylvania. Since the Walkers were early Methodist, I beleive they came from Ultser to Philadelphia about 1780-1800. I can't find them on any of the 1810 or 1820 Censuses or on any ships list. Any assistance would be appreciated!

Olive Tree Answer: Donald - Unless you have other sources which confirm Hiram's father's birth in Ireland, I would hesitate to embark on a research tour of Ulster resources based on one census entry.

What do we know about Hiram's father? We know that he (or at least his wife) was in Tennessee in 1807.

When did Hiram die? Do you have his obituary or his death certificate? I assume that you have documentation which provided the father's name as Alexander.

I hope that you have done all the usual checking: followed other Walkers born in Tennessee living near Hiram, searched Tennessee Grantor/grantee indices, consulted TSL newspaper index, found any Walkers born in Tennessee which are of a similar age, (e.g. have you looked at the 1850 Census on Ancestry.com for Polly Walker and her family? Polly born in Pennsylvania, her children state father was born in Virginia; three daughters Ann, Alcy, and Mary Walker White lived long enough to find death certificates for them).

You may want to have a look at the Ancestor Death Record Finder for more help with alternate ideas for death records other than obituaries or death certificates.

How to Prove an Inherited Family Tree That Has No Sources

Greg asked:

Does anyone know of the VanSicle family starting with Andrew D, who married Elizabeth Kirts? He was born 11-6-1865, and Elizabeth June 24, 1879. Most lived in Minnesota, Iowa and North Dakota. I am working from a typed family tree starting with the Keartz/Kirtz families in Luxembourg. It was started by Father F.X. Miller from Knox ND, and must have been finished by someone else, as it does his date of birth.
I have this from my Mother, daughter of Annnie Kirz and Robert Kendall.I welcome any help.

Olive Tree Answer: Hi Greg. Since you are working from a completed tree without sources you may want to start at square one. That is, start with yourself (if you are the last person on the tree) or your parents or grandparents and work backwards. Prove each generation through birth, marriage, death. obituaries and census records.

You can search Obituaries on GenealogyBank.com. You may find it helpful to use the free Ancestor Birth Record Finder, Ancestor Marriage Record Finder and Ancestor Death Record Finder. I like Ancestry.com for census searches.

When (or if) you finally get to Andrew, you should be able to find him in quite a few census records, including 1870 with his parents and 1880 (probably still with his family). By using census you will have places of birth and you may even find other relatives in the same household.

Help Finding an Ancestor's Death in United Kingdom

Linda asks:

my Great grandmother, Johanna nee Mullins married name Costa, born 1867, in UK , married Samuel Abraham Costa, 1888, had my grandmother 1888 DEC 26Th. Samuel got married in 1893 again, saying he was a widower, but can not find any death dates for Johanna. married in st James church 1888, lived at one time bethnal green, stepney and whitechapel in London UK, can you solve this puzzle thank you for trying too.

Olive Tree Answer Hi Linda, I wonder if you have found your Johanna Costa (nee Mullins) in the 1891 census for England? If you have, then you know she died between 1891 and 1893, which narrows your timeline for hunting quite a bit. If you found Samuel but without Johanna, then you know she died between 1888 and 1891.

Next, I would search the indexes to Vital Statistics for United Kingdom online.

Ancestry.com has free indexes online for Deaths in the UK after 1839 but you can also use Free BMD. FreeBMD is an ongoing project to transcribe the Civil Registration index of births, marriages and deaths for England and Wales. As they complete their transcriptions they turn them over to Ancestry.com. There is no charge for using the indexes at either site.

If you find a birth, marriage or death record for an ancestor, you can order the certificates online at General Register Office for England and Wales online ordering service.

Remember too that Johanna is one of those names that can be found in a variety of ways! Ann, Anna,Hannah, Johanne are the most common ways to find it recorded. So don't overlook those spellings when searching for your ancestor. Having said that, there is a Hannah Costa found in the death records indexes during the time period you specified. Take a peek and see if you think she might be your ancestor.

You might also like to read Ancestor Death Record Finder which might help researchers figure out where to find these records, from the rather obvious places to the more obscure.

Finding an Ancestor's Death

Marilyn asked

I am trying to locate the death record for my great aunt. Anne Maria Levy was born September 7, 1877 in Eganville, Ontario, Canada – daughter of Edward Levy and Bridget Sheridan. Her family moved to Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada around 1900 and I have baptismal records for two of her sister’s children where she is mentioned as a sponsor – these records are in 1904 and 1905. Her mother died in 1909 and she is not listed as a survivor, I don’t know if this is a misprint or if she died between 1905 and 1909. She had a sister Margaret Levy who married a Charles O’Neil and they moved to Lowell, Massachusetts in the U.S. and in Margaret’s obituary she is not mentioned either. I know a lot of family members have been missed in obituaries so I can’t be sure that she died in the time frame I mentioned. I have checked Manitoba, Ontario, and Massachusetts death records for as far as they go and have found nothing. Would you have any suggestions??

Olive Tree Answer: Hello Marilyn. I agree that not finding Anne in the obituaries is not absolute proof that she wasn't alive. She may have married and/or been estranged from the family.

Have you looked for Anne or her family in the 1906 census for Manitoba? There is some glitch in the
Ancestry.com search engine specifically for this census and no matter what one searches under, you get zero results. Searching in the generic search engine on the Ancestry Home Page for Ann* Lev* (using wildcards) in Manitoba, you get 14 hits for the 1906 census but when I click to see the list, I get "Your Search for Ann* Lev* returned no matches". So perhaps by the time you read this post the search will be back up and running. 1916 census is also available.

Re finding her death, have you read the Ancestor Death Record Finder for suggestions and ideas of places to find a death record?

How to find an obituary or Death Record

Gloria asked:

How can I find a death record and/or obituary for Ida Jane Pell in October 1946 in Edmondton.

I know she lived there as I have a street address.

Olive Tree Answer: Gloria, the first thing you will have to do to find an obituary is find out what newspapers were published for Edmonton in that year. To find a death record you need to know if Alberta Vital Registrations are available to the public for 1946. Have you tried the Alberta GenWeb? They should have the information you need re newspapers and vital statistics.

I think you should also read the Ancestor Death Record Finder for more help. There are ideas and links to guide you.

Last but not least you might also try the Canadian Births or Baptism, Deaths and Marraiges Exchange