Search Alternates to Ships Passenger Lists to Canada Before 1865

Barbara asked the following question about her great-grandmother Elizabeth Hayes, born 1841 in Newcastle, England

My great grandmother emigrated from Staffordshire England between 1851 and 1861. She was found in the 1851 of Staffordshire and I can’t find her in the 1861 of either England or Ontario.  I’ve spent years trying to find records of who she might have come from, the ship, and where she entered Canada.  In 1862 she was in Toronto and married my great grandfather in 1863 in Toronto. She was a witness to her Aunt’s marriage in 1862.

 Barbara - You have a challenge ahead of you. Before 1865 ships passenger list to Canada did not have to be archived. There are some lists but the challenge is finding them as they are few and far between. However there are substitute lists such as Shipping Company Records, Immigration Agent Records, St. Lawrence Steamship Records, etc. 

See Filling in the Gaps at http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/canada/ for links to alternate records for pre 1865 immigration AND for details on any that are available only offline.

You may also wish to purchase the e-book which contains much more information than found in the links provided above

 Filling in the Gaps: Finding Pre-1865 Ships Passenger Lists to Canada on Amazon.com also available as Filling in the Gaps: Finding Pre-1865 Ships Passenger Lists to Canada  on Amazon.ca

It is also available as
Filling in the Gaps: Finding Pre-1865 Ships Passenger Lists to Canada is available in paperback format on CreateSpace

Filling in the Gaps: Finding Pre-1865 Ships Passenger Lists to Canada Paperback version on Amazon.com

Finding an Ancestor's Arrival in Canada in 1842

Jim asked Olive Tree Genealogy a question about transportation from Quebec to Montreal in 1842

My great grand parents (John & Mary Anne White), and their family (6 children) arrived in Quebec City, in June 1842, from Sligo, Ireland.  They were granted their Land in Albion, Ont.,  in Oct 1842. 

 

What is the most likely method of travel, and route,  from Quebec to Montreal, and then on to York? 

Olive Tree Genealogy Answer:

Jim - Most immigrants traveled up the St. Lawrence by boat to reach Montreal and then often continued on by boat to get to York (present day Toronto). From there they might have taken a stagecoach or wagon or walked to their inland destination. 

Sometimes the original ship carried on from Quebec to Montreal but sometimes they had to transfer to another boat. 

Sue Swiggum of The Ships List website has been busy for a few years transcribing the steamship passenger lists for boats carrying immigrants to Canada West (aka Upper Canada aka Ontario) from Quebec and Montreal.   Ship arrivals in 1842 from May to July are found here.  If you know the ship name you will find more details on Sue's page. There are some ships that have passenger names attached to letters or special notations made by the Captain.

The St. Lawrence steamship records start in 1819 and are found here

You can also search the Immigrant Agents' Records. There is much detail to be found here. See Filling in the Gaps for a comprehensive list of all available Immigrant Agent Records and other resources for your time period of interest.

Finding an Ancestor Arriving in Canada Before 1865

Cindy asked Olive Tree Genealogy a question about her Irish ancestors' immigration to Canada.

thank you in advance for your time,  I am trying to find my husbands family.

http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/25599501/person/1678863353 Robert Moynan born 1821 in Ireland and his wife also from Ireland lived in Farnham and is buried there along with his wife. I am looking for records of emmigration but find nothing.  I do know that some records from Ireland are missing and I don't know if they came as "Poor" any ideas?

 Hi Cindy - I see from your online tree that the family were in Quebec before 1851 when their daughter was born. That's a challenge because prior to 1865 ships passenger lists for Canada did not have to be kept. So finding one is tricky. Some have survived but most have not.


Don't despair though as there are substitutes to finding an actual passenger list, such as shipping company records, Emigration Agent records, Steamship records from ships taking immigrants up the St. Lawrence River, etc.

Read the rest of Olive Tree Genealogy answer at http://olivetreegenealogy.blogspot.com

Finding an Ancestor in Canadian Records

Carole asked Olive Tree Genealogy some questions about her Johnson ancestors who settled in Ontario Canada from England. I've edited Carol's email slightly:

William Johnson, born 1821 in Lancashire, England; died 1908 in Varna, Ontario.  Occupation, carpenter. [He married] Mary McQuarrie Johnson, born 1825 in Ireland; died 1912, in Varna.

 

William Johnson's parents were Thomas Johnson and Jane Martin Johnson Mary McQuarrie's parents were Andrew McQuarrie and Mary (maiden name unknown)

 

I have no further information concerning my Johnson and McQuarrie forebears.  Any help you might be able to provide will be greatly appreciated, including dates of migration to Canada and the ships on which they migrated. 

AskOliveTree response: Carole,  I hope you have gathered all the census records available for your family. Since Ontario and England took their census every 10 years in the same year starting with 1841, you should be able to find William in 1841 England, then 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881, 1891 and 1901 in Ontario.

I use Ancestry.com but you can also find some Canadian  census records on Automated Genealogy, FamilySearch and National Archives of Canada

I've suggested these years and locations based on the 1861 census for Stanley Township in Huron County where I found the family with their oldest child age 13 born in Canada. We know from this record that William and Mary were married and living in Ontario by circa 1848.
  
Questions Asked on Census Records
Each of those records will provide you with clues to further research such as occupation, religion and so on.  The 1901 census for example asks for a year of immigration to the country and this will narrow your timeline for William's arrival.

For a list of what questions were asked on each of those census years, see AllCensusRecords.com

Agricultural Census Records - Don't Overlook These!
An important and often over-looked resource of the 1851, 1861 and 1871 census in Ontario is the Agricultural Census. This shows the exact land location of an individual, how many acres he had, how many were cultivated, what he grew on the land and so on.

For help with the Agricultural census you may want to refer to my blog posts on Finding Ancestors on 1851 Agricultural Census Canada and Ancestry Goof with 1861 Canadian Census

 I suggest searching the Agricultural Census for three reasons - first you will learn more details about your ancestor if you find him, and that means you're getting a better sense of the person other than names and dates. Secondly finding his exact land location (Lot and Concession Number) means you can branch out to searching the Abstract Indexes to Deeds, the Township Papers and more.

Land Records Are Useful

Each of these records has different information. The Abstract Indexes for example will give you dates for when your ancestor first purchased his land and when he was last living on it (sold or transferred it to another individual) Sometimes you will find references to other family members, or even a will.

The last reason is that your William is listed as a farmer in 1861, 1881, and 1891. I'm not sure why you gave his occupation as "carpenter" in your email to me but perhaps he showed that occupation on a census I didn't check? It is a pretty big occupation discrepancy though so I'm a bit puzzled by it.

Farmers usually owned their own land so he is almost certain to be found on the Agricultural Census records.

Ships Passenger Lists & Immigration Records

From the 1901 census we are told that William immigrated in 1845 while Mary says she immigrated in 1843. Since Canada did not require that ships passenger lists be kept before 1865, this will be a challenge for you to find records of their passage. Surviving lists are few and far between. What has survived are other records such as immigration agent records, shipping company records, steamship records of travel down the St. Lawrence River from Ports of Arrival in Canada - and those records are what you will need to search in.

Some of these alternate ship records are online and links to all known substitute records, offline and online, can be found at Filling in the Gaps on Olive Tree Genealogy website. This is where your search for their immigration should start.

Using Wildcards to Break Down a Brick Wall

Roxanne asked about her great grandfather's arrival in Canada and naturalization date:

I am looking for informationon my great grandfather.  He came over to Canada about* 1913 on a ship.  I'm not sure from which port but he came from Sweden to Ontario.  He started out in Kenora, Ont.  On the ship were two or three of his children and his wife:
Albin Franz Danielson (my great-grandfather)and Charlotte (Wohlin), along with Sonia, Siren and Donald their children. (All the children are under 5).  I can not seem to locate a passenger's list anywhere to find out where in Sweden they came from.  Or when they became citizens of Canada.  I do know that Charlotte his wife died in Kenora, Ontario in 1917 and my great-grandfather died in Eagle River, Ontario 1970.  I've looked at many different passenger lists but still could not find them.

ASK OLIVE TREE RESPONSE: Hi Roxanne. I don't usually do lookups or research on this blog. Instead I try to direct genealogists towards locations to find the records they want or to offer ideas on where/how they might search next.

However your question intrigued me! I wondered why you had not found Albin on a ships passenger lists, since passenger lists to Canada after 1865 are online on Ancestry.com and at Library & Archives Canada. So I headed to Ancestry.com to have a look.

They have the complete set of ships passenger lists to Canada from 1865. I figured it might be the spelling of the names and that perhaps you weren't aware you could use wildcards. That brings me to another point I wanted to make - when you are struggling with a brick wall ancestor, find out WHAT records are available for your needs and WHERE they are kept!

Tip #1: Use Wildcards!

So I started with wildcards and did a search for DANIELS*N. That allows for e, o, i or any number of other substitutions for the *

With this method I found  someone I thought was your Albin travelling to Kenora Ontario in May 1911 on board the Lake Manitoba. I wasn't 100% sure it was the right man but then I found Albin's wife and children arriving later with the notation that Charlotte was headed to her husband in Kenora. Bingo. Albin came first and Charlotte and the children followed in August 1911 on board Empress of Ireland. You can find the passenger lists online and enjoy reading all the details.

Charlotte,  28, was with two children (not 3) named Sonya age 3 and Albin aged 1 1/2. Could Albin Jr be Sorin? Albin was with a man named Axel Adolph Danielson but I can't read his age with certainty. I'm wondering if he was related - a brother perhaps? There is a notation beside Albin's name which you will want to follow up "Continental Bonus Allowed"

It didn't take long and that is why it's important to use wildcards in searches to allow for mis-spellings, mangled readings of surnames and other errors.

Tip #2: Be prepared for errors and inconsistencies when comparing records to family lore/memories

Also you're going to have to be very creative with the wildcard searches because I found the marriage of your Albin to Olga Anderson in 1918 in Kenora. But he is recorded as "DONALDSON". He's a farmer, widower, living in Eagle River born in Sweden and with parents "D. Danielson"  and "Brita Crautch" This also was found on Ancestry.

Interestingly a birth registration for his son Carl Donald in Kenora in 1912 shows Albin as "Frans Albin Danielson" but a death registration for another son (unnamed) who was born and died in Dec 1916 records him as "Albin Donaldson" We know it is your ancestor from his wife's name in that record - "Charlotte Wallis" So either he called himself Donaldson/Danielson interchangeably or the clerks doing the recording misunderstood what he was saying.

Tip #3: Finding Naturalization Records

Remember you want to find out WHAT records are available and WHERE they are kept. So for naturalization records I went to NaturalizationRecords.com, clicked on Canada and then used the link there to go to the LAC (Library &Archives Canada) searchable index for Naturalization records 1915-1936.

Another bingo! Your great grandfather is found there as Frans Albin Danielson. His two minor children Sonya and Soren are also naturalizing with him so you will want to send for the full record. You can do so by reading how to do this on the LAC website.

And that's all there was to it. If I were you I would now search Swedish records for Frans Albin/Albin Frans and his parents, as well as the Axel Adolph Danielson he was travelling with in 1911. I'd also search records after 1911 for Axel to see if there's a family connection to your Albin. 

FInding an Ancestor on a Canadian Ships Passenger List after 1865

William asked about a Canadian Ships Passenger List

I am searching for the name of the passenger ship on which my mother Maria Drobka and her companion Demiyr Hryhirczuk both of Bulovina Ukraine departed from Hamburg, Bremen or Antwerp and arrived in a Canadian port of Halifax, St.John or Montreal in 1907.

Hi William - You are in luck because incoming Canadian Ships Passenger Lists have been indexed and are online at Ancestry.com.

They are also online at Library & Archives Canada but they are not indexed on that site so you would have to search page by page for your ancestor's name.

Finding a Ship Ireland to Canada 1822

Bill wrote with a challenging question about a ship arriving in Canada in 1822

I'm trying to find information on the passage that my great, great grandfather John Worthington had with his family. He sailed from Dublin, Ireland on 11 April 1822 and arrived in Québec on 23 Jun 1822 with his wife Mary (Dagge) and son Edward Dagge W. and daughter Mary W. I don't know the name of the ship. I'd also love to confirm that they lived in Dunleckney, co. Carlow.


I found the above in notes of my grandfather and in a biography of Edward Dagge Worthington that was published in The Canadian Biographical Dictionary and Portrait Gallery of Eminent and Self-made Men, American Biographical Publishing Company, 1882, p. 103. I have some information on their life in Quebec where John was a shoemaker, but nothing regarding their travel from Ireland to Canada.

Hi Bill,

First let me say how lucky you are to have found such details on your ancestors. The time period you are looking in is very challenging, as ships passenger lists to Canada were not archived until 1865.

There are substitutes such as finding an immigrant's passage up the St. Lawrence River on a steamship. Sue Swiggum of TheShipsList.com is busy extracting these records and also newspaper notices of ship arrivals.

You may want to check her page for 1822 arrivals and see if any of the ships listed fit with your details as to date of departure or arrival.

If that is not successful I suggest you visit Filling in the Gaps which is a page of links to ALL online projects bringing these early substitute ships passenger records online. You will find links to JJ Cooke Shipping Records, Immigration Agent Records and more.

Finding Your Ancestor on Canadian Ships Passenger Lists

Elaine asked

My grandfather immigrated to Canada from Denmark in 1908. I imagine it was by ship but I know nothing more than he lived for a while in Hamilton, Ontario. Where would I find Canadian immigration records for that time? Any place online?

Olive Tree Answer: Elaine you are in luck. Ships Passenger Lists to Canada from 1865 to 1935 have been put online. The images of the manifests up to 1922 are available for free at Library & Archives Canada. There is NO index by passenger name at the LAC website.

But more good news - these ships passenger lists have been indexed by Ancestry.com. Each passenger name found in the index links to the actual manifest page.

Have fun!

From Canada to Australia - Finding a Ships Passenger List

Fred's Question:

I am trying to find how my Gfather Charles Hayes came to Australia form Canada in 1906 ,we have been told a lot different stories,it appears he married in Newcastle sometime in 1906.His death papers stated that in 1915 when he died he had been in Australia 9 years,he had 3 children in Australia as my gmother was born Newcastle area. my Gfathers date of birth according to his death papers was 1880 and born in Toronto, papers stated that his father was William Hayes and mother May A Cleary. Any help or direction would be greatly appreceated by all 11 of us and our offspring.

Olive Tree Answer: Dear Fred - It seems you have some good clues to go on, although you have to remember that the death papers may not be accurate. The information in them was not given by your grandfather (the deceased) and depending who the informant was, and how much they knew about your grandfather, will indicate how valid the details might be.

Having said that, you will want to use the 1906 year as a starting point for your search for immigration records. Allow a few years either side to be safe. Of course if you could find his marriage to your grandmother, you could narrow the timeframe! Have you searched the Index to Births, Marriages & Deaths for New South Wales for marriages resources? You didn't provide me with Charles' wife's name so I can't say if any of the 3 hits I got are for your grandfather.

I should also point out that it is easy to forget that the person you are asking for help may not be familiar with the local geography, but it's very important to provided all location details. For example I have no idea where Newcastle Australia is, but I needed to know to direct you to the correct area for BDM. I wasn't going to go hunting but decided this was a good opportunity to give readers a little reminder that you should never make the person helping you work harder than necessary! A search online provided me with the fact that Newcastle is in New South Wales District but it would have saved me time if that information were provided to me.

But back to finding a ships passenger list - you will either need to find a ship outbound from Canada or inbound to Australia from 1904-1908. The online UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960 on Ancestry also show ship arrivals in Australia so they may be worth a search. There is also the New South Wales, Australia, Unassisted Immigrant Passenger Lists, 1826-1922 I also like Cora's Web for finding what is available in online ships passenger lists to Australia.

There are also the online Australian Electoral Rolls, 1903-1954 which might help indicate when your grandfather arrived in Australia.

Searching male relatives to find a female ancestor

Ti'ms Question:

My 3rd great grandmother, Eliza Ann Leeson came to Canada from Ireland to settle in Wolford/Kitley Township, Leeds/Grenville County, Ontario. Family trees indicate she was born abt 1816. She married John Kinch.

Samuel Leeson signed a marriage bond on behalf of his sister Elizabeth. The bond was for 200 pounds, a very sizeable sum, not what most farmers would be able to afford. Samuel’s signature shows that he had excellent penmanship, an indication that Samuel had been well educated.

The Leesons first appeared in 1832 of Wolford Township, Grenville County, Ontario. Samuel, Joseph and Richard were listed as heads of households living on the same lot. The census also indicated that their households contained a total of 2 males under 16, 7 males over 16 and 4 females over 16. It seems safe to assume that only Joseph and Samuel were married at this time. This appears to indicate that the Leeson family was composed of seven brothers, two sisters, two wives and two young sons. Or alternatively, six brothers, two sisters, two wives, one husband and two young sons.

Richard indicated in the 1842 census that he had come to Canada in 1832. Joseph’s son Woodman was born in 1831 in Ireland , also indicating that Joseph Leeson did not come to Canada until 1832.

On the 7 Jun 1832, Samuel Leeson petitioned the Rev. Corporation for Superintending and Managing the Clergy Reserves in Upper Canada for the right to purchase W1/2 of Lot 29 Con 3 in Wolford. His petition indicated the property was currently vacant and that it was a clergy reserve. In 1840, Samuel was given the right to purchase the property.

In 1842, Joseph, Samuel, Brice and Winfield were still living as neighbours in Wolford on Lot 29, Con 3. Richard had married and was now living in Kitley, just down the road. By 1849, Brice had moved to Seymour and then later onto Cardiff . By 1851, Winfield had moved to Wisconsin. Joseph and Samuel remained in Wolford until their deaths

One of the stories that other descendants have is that 8 children made the trip with their parents. The father died on ship, the mother died shortly after landing in Quebec. My question is how do I find out (If I can) who Eliza's parents were. I'm at a roadblock which I have no idea where to go from here.

Olive Tree Answer:
Dear Tim - What a lot of information you have on Eliza's family! You have proven one brother - Samuel. You don't say how you know that Richard and Joseph are also brothers, but if you are correct (i.e., if you have proof they are all siblings of Eliza) then you are in luck. Often it is quite difficult to trace a female ancestor and when we have such a stumbling block, we should turn to the males. In this case you have 3 brothers to trace.

I would look for the brother's obituaries, their death registrations and marriage records for clues as to their parents' names. It would be wonderful if you found a ships passenger list for the whole family but your time period is a challenging one, for Canadian ships manifests did not have to be archived until 1865. However, many lists did survive, and as well, there are other substitute records one can use, such as passage for immigrants down the St. Lawrence to their final destination, or Emigrant Agents' Records and even Shipping Company Records.

It looks like you need early 1830s records and these online projects may be of help. You can check the St. Lawrence Steamboat Co. Passenger Records 1819-1836 at http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/passengerlists/1819_20index.htm

The Hawke Papers, letterbooks of Chief Emigrant Agent Anthony B. Hawke are available at the Archives of Ontario. They cover the years 1831 to 1892. See the searchable database for years 1865 - 1883 at http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/english/db/hawke.htm For the earlier years you must consult the microfilm. There are also Alms House Admission Foreigners & Nativity Records with Ships Names 1819 - 1840 online. It includes individuals who had sailed into Canada first then ended up in New York

If you are looking for Irish ancestors, you may want to search the online database Immigrants at Grosse-Île at
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/genealogy/022-504-e.html You can also request a lookup in Index of Passengers Who Emigrated to Canada between 1817 and 1849.

There is also Irish Canadian Emigration Records, 1823-1849 available on Ancestry.com This database contains various records and reports of Canadian emigration agents James Allison and A.J. Buchanan.

You may also want to consult the list of online projects (and links to them) at Filling in the Gaps in Ships Passenger Lists to Canada Look for the 2 column chart near the top of the page, and read carefully to find what is available before 1865 (on the left side of the chart)

Finding Ancestors Who Immigrated via Canada to USA

Norma's Question:

I have been searching for the entry of my family. My grandfather came from
Solingen, Germany in approx 1884, and I understand his sister Emma, brother
Charles and maybe their father immigrated. I
cannot find the date of enter, passenger lists. The earliest date I have
found was 1894 when my grand-father married for the first time. I don't
know if they immigrated through Canada or not. Where do I look if I want to
find if they immigrated through Canada?

AskOlive Answer: Hello Norma

The National Archives of Canada (NAC) holds immigration records from 1865 to 1935.
Library and Archives Canada has digitized passenger lists for 1865 to 1935 as part of their new Moving Here, Staying Here
online exhibition

They're available as Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1922 As well, Ancestry.com has these passenger lists indexed and linked to the actual images.

If you don't find what you are looking for, you may want to try Ships Passenger Lists to Canada 1865-1930

How to find an immigration record by looking in other databases

Ruth's Question:

Looking for Immigration Information : ship, year etc.

MOTHER:Sarah Murphy ALLISON widowed 1890, Belfast , came to Vancouver, B.C. & married
James CURRAN Widower, on Sept. 27, 1891, Vancouver, B.C. ( I have the marriage certificate.)

CHILDREN: ( came after 1891 )
Robert ALLISON b 1871 Ballynure Co. Antrim
John " b 1876 Belfast, Co. Antrim
Elizabeth " b 1876 Belfast Co. Antrim ( twins)
Joseph " b 1879 Glasgow

I have the 1901 Census Belfast & can document all the children there. I have the BC Archives copy of them in Vancouver, B.C. in 1903. They were not monied & I wonder if they immigrated under some assisted scheme? ANY help GREATLY appreciated as I have been looking for YEARS!

Olive Tree Answer: Hello Ruth. It looks like you have done some good work finding data for your Allison family. Sometimes in order to find one record we have to look at others! In this case, to help you find that immigration record of a ships passenger list, you may want to seach the 1911 Canadian census. It will give an immigration year, and although it may be slightly off, you can use it to narrow your timeframe. The 1911 Census for Canada can be found at AutomatedGenealogy (a free transcription which links to the free LAC images). You can also search the index to the 1911 Canadian Census at
Ancestry.com. The indexed entries are linked to the actual images of the census page.

Having said that, I had a quick peek and found Robert, John and Elizabeth living in Vancouver BC in 1911. Their dates of birth are not what you have provided, but it is them. You can have a look for yourself and decide which is correct. They all state their year of immigration was 1902. So you can search the online
Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935 on Ancestry using that year plus/minus 1 or 2 years. They should turn up!

FInding out if your ancestor was a Home Child

Jean asked

I would like to know whether my Grandfather christened John William Handford but also known as William Handford (Handord) went to Canada from England around 1900 as a Home child born in 1880.

Hello Jean - Between 1869 and the early 1930s, over 100,000 children were sent to Canada from Great Britain during the child emigration movement. You can search the online database for Home Children (1869-1930) to see if your grandfather is on any of the lists that have been transcribed.

You can also search Ancestry.com database of Ships Passenger Lists to Canada 1865-1935 to see if he appears on those lists.

You might also want to visit the website The British Home Children

Also you can search the 1901 and 1911 census records for Canada to see if your grandfather's name is found. These are indexed at Ancestry.com and AutomatedGenealogy.com with images of the actual pages held at Library & Archives Canada (LAC).

Finding Ships Passenger List to Canada After 1865 & Finding England Records

Tracy asked

I am seeking assistance with my ancestors, Edward Arnold and his wife Emma Smith. Edward was born 6 Jan 1828 in Stoke Golding, Buckinghamshire, England and died 25 Mar 1909 in Niagara Township, Ontario, Canada. He is the son of John Arnold (1791-?) and Ann Sharp (1802-?). He married Emma Smith sometime in the early to mid 1850s. Emma Smith was born 3 Jan 1831 in Stoneleigh, Warwickshire, England and died 16 May 1913 in Lincoln, Ontario, Canada. She was the daughter of Thomas Smith (died before 1841) and Sarah Watts (1791-?).

Edward can be found in the 1841 census in Holy Trinity, Warwickshire, in 1851 in Allesley, Warwickshire, and in 1861 in Berkswell, Warwickshire with wife Emma. By 1871 Edward can be found in Niagara Township, Ontario, Canada listed as head of household. They remained in the Niagara/Lincoln area until their deaths and can be found there in the 1881, 1891 and 1901 censuses.

They had the following children: Elizabeth born abt 1855; Fannie born 7 Nov 1856 and died 2 Jun 1945 in Clark Co, South Dakota; William born 10 May 1861; Harriett born 30 Dec 1861 and died 12 Dec 1910 in Niagara Township; Emma born abt 1861; Ellen (perhaps called Nellie per family lore) born 27 Apr 1863 and died 26 Jun 1927 in York, Ontario, Canada; Edward born abt 1865 and died 9 Nov 1932 in Lincoln, Ontario, Canada; Frederick born Jun 1866; Henry born 10 Mar 1871 in Lincoln, Ontario, Canada; Susan Jane born 12 Sept 1871 in Queenstown, Ontario Canada and died 10 Jan 1931 in York, Ontario, Canada; Frank b. 1 Aug 1873 in Welland, Ontario, Canada; and Caroline born 9 May 1877 in Welland. Elizabeth, Fannie, William, Harriett, Emma, Ellen, Edward, and Frederick were all born in Warwickshire, England likely in Berkswell. There may have been another child named Mary for which I’ve found no record of in any of the census records, but handwritten notes by Fannie’s daughter-in-law include her. Also, family lore indicates my ancestor, Fannie, was about 10 years old when they came to Canada. Family records indicate about 1867

My questions are as follows: Where could I find passenger lists for a late 1860s crossing from England to Canada? Where can I find the burial of Edward Arnold and wife Emma Smith? I know they were Anglican per the 1871 Canadian census so is there a church cemetery where they may have been buried? Where can I find obituaries for Edward and Emma? I’ve tried to do research on some of the other children in hopes of finding more answers, but can’t get much past the 1911 census. I’m wondering if there were other children besides my ancestor Fannie who came to the U.S.? She was listed in the 1881 Niagara census though I’m unsure of the exact month it was taken. She came to Whiteside Co, Illinois and by Feb 1882 married Walter Harmon in that county. Lastly, any suggestions for finding further records on Edward and Emma’s parents?

My various sources include the English and Canadian census databases at Ancestry.com, the 1881 census at the Library and Archives of Canada website, the various birth, marriage and death databases for Ontario at Ancestry.com as well as the Ontario Deaths 1869-1947 database at FamilySearch. I have found various marriages and census records for Fannie’s siblings which I have omitted from this narrative (it’s already long enough J) but was attempting to get further into the 20th century in the hopes of living descendants of Edward and Emma.

Thank you for your consideration and help. Several of your previous Ask Olive blog posts have already helped me get further along on researching this family.

Olive Tree Answer: Tracy you have done a lot of research and the way you outlined it for your query is very helpful, so thank you! I'm pleased that my AskOliveTree Blog has been helpful.

Now, you have a lot of questions so forgive me but I am only going to tackle one or two today.

First question:

Where could I find passenger lists for a late 1860s crossing from England to Canada?

If your family lore is correct and their arrival was after 1865 you are in luck! Ships passenger lists to Canada did not have to be kept before 1865. So finding a passenger list for an ancestor's arrival before 1865 is extremely difficult and often without success. After 1865, you can browse the free online images (no index available) at Library & Archives Canada or you can consult the indexes at Ancestry for
Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935 The images are linked to the indexes so you can see the actual page your ancestor's name was recorded on.

Second question:

Lastly, any suggestions for finding further records on Edward and Emma’s parents?

Since you already have their names, you can obtain Edward & Emma's marriage certificate, which will give their father's occupations. I use Free BMD to find the record in the index. Write down the details for ordering (Year, Quarter, District, Volume, Page) and then you order the certificate from the Government website, GRO. It is very easy to use and the certificates arrive quite promptly by mail

Being the curious sort, I had a look at FreeBMD. The only marriage for an Edward Arnold and Emma Smith occured in 1860, which is after the two births you have given. Are those birth years confirmed by a birth registration? Or are they from other sources such as census, which is much less reliable. The marriage I found took place in Meriden District which is covers the boundaries of the counties of Warwickshire and West Midlands. With Emma from Warwickshire, it would be logical for her wedding to take place there.

You can also search the census online at Ancestry.com for their parents. Start at 1841 and work upwards - 1851, 1861 and so on. This will give you family groups, occupations and locations of birth.

Finding Ships Passenger List to Canada Before 1865

Dawn asked

I have been looking for a ships list for my DEARING/DEERING family, who according to the 1901 census for son Edward DEARING, immigrated to Canada , Proton ON in 1851. I have searched the Ships List, Transcribers Guild and various other sites including Olive Tree and cannot find a thing on them. Family do not know what ship they were aboard. Family members were: Father: Edward “Gilbert”, mother: Mary, Children: Mary Ann 1838, Robert 1843 and Edward 1849. The name was originally DEERING but when Edward Gilbert’s brother came to Canada abt 1837, he changed the spelling and it remained for all family members from then on in Canada. Any suggestions of where I might find this info?

Olive Tree Answer: Hello Dawn, You have a challenge ahead of you because ships passenger lists to Canada did not have to be kept before 1865. So finding a passenger list for an ancestor's arrival is extremely difficult and often without success. There are however, alternate (substitute) records where you can hunt. My best advice to you is to go to the page Filling in the Gaps. Look on the left hand side of the double sided chart for the title "Canadian Passenger Lists Before 1865". This is a list of ALL current online projects (with links) which have records of names - either in Emigrant Agent records, or Shipping Company records or steamship travel on the Great Lakes which ferried immigrants from the arrival ports in Canada to their final destination. Good luck!

How to Obtain a Canadian Ships Passenger List after 1936

Judy asked

My husbands family arrived in Quebec June 1952 on Empress of France. Do you know of any passenger lists for this year?

Olive Tree Answer: Hi Judy,

Records of immigrants arriving at Canadian land and seaports from January 1, 1936 onwards remain in the custody of Citizenship and Immigration Canada. To request a copy of another person's immigration record, you must mail your request to:

Citizenship and Immigration Canada
Public Rights Administration
360 Laurier Avenue West
10th Floor
Ottawa, ON
K1A 1L1

There are some rules to applying:

1. You have to submit an Access to Information Request Form and you must have a Canadian address.

2. Provide passenger's full name, date of birth and year of entry. If you know their country of birth, port of entry and names of accompanying family members, provide that too.


3. You have to have a signed consent form from the person who immigrated, or proof they have been deceased for at least 20 years. (Unless they would be over 110 years old if alive today, so in your case, anyone born before 1899 doesn't require a consent form or proof of death)

Finding an Ancestor on a Ship Arriving Canada 1854

Marilyn asked :

Hello, I am writing to ask if you know of any place I can find out about a ship that landed in Quebec or Montreal in the fall or early winter of 1854? I keep checking the list and they have only up to July. My people left Liverpool in August on the Megan Enterprise. I have documentation of them being in the US on December 10th of 1854. I am interested to see if there is any available log from that ship showing the deaths at sea.My gg grandmother died on the journey and was reportedly buried at sea.

Olive Tree Answer: Hi Marilyn, Finding a ships passenger list arriving in Canada before 1865 is a very challenging task. Prior to that year, it was not required that the passenger list manifests be kept. So finding one is a bit hit and miss. There is a nice little chart with links showing online projects with ships passenger lists (or substitutes) for BEFORE 1865 and AFTER 1865 at Filling in the Gaps

Have you seen the list of Names of individual passengers on ships sailing to Canada in the 1850s extracted from the Alms House Admission Foreigners & Nativity Records New York City, New York 1855-1858? These individuals sailed from their home countries to Canadian ports, then to New York in the 1850s and were admitted to the Almshouse for care. Although they were in the Almshouse after 1855, their ship arrivals were earlier.

As a gentle tip for writing a query, I have one comment. Putting this sentence in your email ("I keep checking the list and they have only up to July ") is frustrating for me, since I don't know what "the list" is, nor do I know who "they" refers to! But I hope my answer above is a help to you in your search.

Finding an ancestor's arrival in American or Canadian ships passenger lists

Ken asked:

Joseph and Elizabeth Maidens emigrated to the US after July 1849 and with brother William were in Nepeuskin and Rushford areas of Winnebago, Wisconsin, confirmed reference the 1850 US Census. William living with the Slingsby family. My question is how did they get there? I'm looking for ports of departure and arrival, passenger list and ship information related to these ancestors aged 27 - 35, who left their Revesby, Lincolnshire, England homes.

Olive Tree Answer: Hello Ken. It is possible that your Maidens family came in to the USA via Canada. Fares to Canadian ports of arrival were much cheaper than to America. However that presents a challenge as before 1865, Canadian ships passenger lists did not have to be kept. However, some were and there are alternate resources. You may want to consider checking these out by using the 2 column chart of links at Filling in the Gaps in Ships Passenger Lists to Canada for PRE-1865 Ships Passenger Lists to Canada and POST-1865 Ships Passenger Lists to Canada.

Where would I start my search for a ship list leaving France 1830

Gloria's Question:

Where would I start my search for the ship list leaving France 1830. I have names but have arrived at a dead end.
Alsace could have been under German rule at the time, would I then search Germany rather than France? Tisserand-Michel and Catherine-name changed to English translation upon arrival=Weaver or Wever. Arrived, possibly Quebec 1830

Hi Gloria - You have a challenge ahead of you! As far as I know, neither Germany nor France kept outbound ships passenger lists for that time period. And Canada did not have to archive (keep) their ships passenger lists until 1865. So you must seek alternate records, such as Shipping Company Records, records from newspapers, travel by land, emigration agent records and so on.

There is a chart online which gives links to all known online projects for all ships passenger lists and substitutes for immigration to Canada before 1865. You may find this helpful if you have not used it. Please note that the link for The Hawke Papers, letterbooks of Chief Emigrant Agent Anthony B. Hawke available at the Archives of Ontario from 1831 to 1892, has on online searchable database ONLY for the years 1865 - 1883. So for earlier years before 1865, these records must be searched on microfilm.

If I were you, I'd first check the Records of James Allison, Emigrant Agent at Montreal, 1823-1845 which is a new database just brought online by Ancestry.com

How can an Ancestor be in England and Canada census in 1871?

Bill asked:

I am searching for the date,port and ship that my ancestor: ARSCOTT, Jane arrived in Canada from Devon England in the period 1861-1871. I have found Jane Arscott on both 1871 England Census, at South Molton Devon and 1871 Canadian Census at Caledon Township, Peel County Ontario.

Jane also is listed on the 1881 census as well but not on any further census, based on my research I feel that she died here in the period after 1881 but before 1886? Applicable cemetery records and death registration are non existent.

Why she is listed on both 1871 Census I have no idea but I am absolutely certain that she was physically here for both 1871 and 1881 census.

Olive Tree Answer:

Hello Bill, You have an interesting challenge with your Jane Arscott being found on the 1871 census in two countries. The first thing you should do is find out when each census was actually taken. Was there time for Jane to physically be present on the England census and then sail to Canada for the 1871 census? If yes, that would certainly help narrow your timeframe for her immigration.

It is also important to find out what questions were asked on the England and the Canadian 1871 census returns. If, for example the England one asked who was present in the household IN THAT YEAR, then Jane may not have been physically there when the census taker came around BUT that would be proof she was there in 1871. This would narrow her timeline for immigration.

I had a look online and found that the 1871 census for England was taken on the night of 2 April 1871. Enumeration forms were distributed to all households a few days before the census night and the household members were required to complete the forms themselves. The next day, the enumerators collected the completed forms. All of the details from the individual forms were copied into enumerators’ books. One of the questions asked was the name of each person who spent the night of 2 April in the house. So presumably your Jane Arscott was physically in Devon England in April 1871. The only problem I have with accepting this is that the original census schedules that were completed by household members were destroyed and only the copied Enumerator's books survived. Mistakes happen. So - was Jane there or not?

If you have the original page for the
1871 Canada Census with Jane's name, you can look at the top of the sheet to see the exact date it was taken. The dates will vary depending on when the census taker got around to various locations.

One other thing to think about is that if she arrived after 1865, which it appears she did, then you may be able to find her in the online Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935 on Ancestry.